Is SH5 even a simulation or arcade?

[Greyghost]

I have been extremely disappointed over the last couple of weeks just as many others have been as well. Now I see the latest bit of info that just irritates me even more and starts to crush the little bit of hope I had left for this sim. According to Ubisoft's own game listing Silent Hunter 5 is not even listed as a Simulation but as, get this, Action, Adventure. I think to myself maybe this is a new way of describing the genre yet low and behold just above it is the game, sorry simulation "Imagine - Sweet 16" I don't won't an arcade game which is one reason I never bothered with "Enigma- Rising Tide" This is just another kick in the......

http://www.ubi.com/US/Games/Search.aspx?cal=cs

[Westbroek]

Don't overestimate the expertly researched and immaculately crafted simulator: Best Friends Tonight.
I'm sure "Imagine-Sweet 16" is good, but I'm a long time BFT fanboy and it kills me that it's not getting the hype it deserves.

No but seriously, yeah, SH5 is an arcade game. Not that that will keep us from talking about it on this Naval Sim forum. Nor should we. Hopefully, with patches, mods, loving care, and a little imagination it will grow up to be a world class (regional class at least) honest to Ra simulator.

[karamazovnew]

Unlike SH1, (and SH2 a bit) SH3, SH4 and SH5 are not simulators. They have as many sim features as Half-life has "social-development" features. It's the overall game experience, the tactic and feeling behind it all that makes the games worth playing. SH is almost like Guitar Hero in that respect... easy to pick up, lots of difficulty if you want to, but not "the real thing". My guess is that if you've liked SH3 or SH4, you'll like this one too. And a bit of modding always helps in the end.

[Letum]

There where some aspects that aspired to realism in all the SH games.
There will be some aspects that aspire to realism in SHV.

We know already that there are some new features that are not trying to be realistic.

That is al that can be said on the matter atm.

[Mud]

If it is arcade then they surely picked the wrong title because it won't fit in the Silent Hunter series.
I think the bashing and smashing would be totaly different if it was an other title so we didn t expect a successor of the series, except for the OPS maybe.
The fog thickens ........

[Boris]

Do people even still know what arcade means? SH5, even with all that we've seen, is going to be waaaaaay closer to a simulation than an arcade game.

Arcade games are friggin boxes with plastic guns that you put money into. I know some of you are using the term "arcade" just to overexaggerate and make SH5 seem worse than it is, but come on!

Even though there may be some little bits than seem unrealistic at this point SH5 will still be more simulation than 99% of games. SH5 is a lot of things, but it is NOT arcade.

[Letum]

Originally Posted by Boris

Do people even still know what arcade means? SH5, even with all that we've seen, is going to be waaaaaay closer to a simulation than an arcade game.

Well, there is a continuous spectrum all the way from simulator to arcade. It's all relative.

[TDK1044]

It's certainly not a sim. Whether it's an arcade game remains to be seen.

[Jimbuna]

Could yet turn out to be a hybrid....an arcadulator

[Iron Budokan]

Originally Posted by Letum

Well, there is a continuous spectrum all the way from simulator to arcade. It's all relative.

Excactly. And from what we know so far SHV is closer to the end of the arcade spectrum than the sim side.

Case in point: that ridiculous periscope view. That's TOTAL arcade.

[Sailor Steve]

I think the periscope view is great! All that stuff around it? Not so much.

[oscar19681]

Originally Posted by Greyghost

I have been extremely disappointed over the last couple of weeks just as many others have been as well. Now I see the latest bit of info that just irritates me even more and starts to crush the little bit of hope I had left for this sim. According to Ubisoft's own game listing Silent Hunter 5 is not even listed as a Simulation but as, get this, Action, Adventure. I think to myself maybe this is a new way of describing the genre yet low and behold just above it is the game, sorry simulation "Imagine - Sweet 16" I don't won't an arcade game which is one reason I never bothered with "Enigma- Rising Tide" This is just another kick in the......

http://www.ubi.com/US/Games/Search.aspx?cal=cs

If it really turns out to be an arcade game. Then i think the dev,s expect the community finish there job and mod it into a hardcore sim.

[brandtryan]

From Websters: (Italics mine)

sim⋅u⋅la⋅tion  /ˌsɪmyəˈleɪʃən/ [sim-yuh-ley-shuhn]
–noun

1.imitation or enactment, as of something anticipated or in testing.

2.the act or process of pretending; feigning.

3.an assumption or imitation of a particular appearance or form; counterfeit; sham. brutal!

4.Psychiatry. a conscious attempt to feign some mental or physical disorder to escape punishment or to gain a desired objective. I like this one, hehe, as in when I faked a fever to get out of going to school

5.the representation of the behavior or characteristics of one system through the use of another system, esp. a computer program designed for the purpose. most relevant, I suppose.

[brandtryan]

So if we use definition #5 above--the question then, is what "system" is the computer system trying to emulate? This is at the heart of all "realism" and "simulation" debates.

For example, pre-9/11 I was fortunate enough to fly a real simulator in a training center for commercial pilots. Obviously they simulated every mechanical/electrical/hydraulic/navigation/avionics, etc. systems. But they ALSO simulated "scenarios" that might happen, e.g., flame-out, landing gear failure, even now I hear, terrorist attacks. Now the problem is, these "scenarios" can't really be called "systems", unless you call the entire human condition a "system" (OK, getting deep here. Hey, new bumper sticker "Submariners are Deep!"

Anyway, back to SH5. Hopefully what we'll end up with, is a high-fidelity simulation of the submarine's systems, as we had in the past titles. In addition to this--they are trying to bring in a lot of "scenarios" to make the whole title more conducive to the human condition system. That is, where to attack, what to attack, when to attack, how to deal with other humans, with their own "human conditions", etc.

In fact, I think the airlines would say that their goal of having their simulators, is more about the extraneous systems, that is, a terrorist, or a terrible storm, or a mechanical system FAILING, than it is about teaching pilots the systems of the aircraft. After all, they can do that in the real thing--but they CAN'T have a terrible storm appear, or ask them to land the aircraft with no gear. Believe me, the cost in electricity to run those simulators is probably more than fuel, etc. to do training in a real aircraft. (I think they said their electric bill for a month was five figures or more because of the simulators). In addition to being able to actually fly the simulator for 5 minutes or so (take off from Laguardia, cruise around,and then land) I got to sit jumpseat during two pilot's tests. The tests were centered around things going wrong, both internal systems, and "human condition" systems--not whether or not the engine startup sequence was perfect.

Anyway, going off point here. So a simulation is one system trying to represent the characteristics of another. SHV is trying to represent the systems of the Type VII submarine, and specifically, the external conditions from a particular time in history. The developers attempted this in all of the titles, but I think the focus is now on those external systems, more than ever before. One could say they have the sub systems down pretty good--and that they would be frivilous not to bring that knowledge forward in any new titles, albeit, as an option for the hard-core gamer. Their focus on the external things, just like the real flight simulator I was in, will hopefully bring a new audience into the genre--as it is these sort of things (experiencing WW2, killing things, sailing, etc.) that the masses seem to spend their hard-earned cash on. Plus, it's a bonus for the hard-core guys, AS LONG AS THE SUB SYSTEMS ARE KEPT IN TACT, OR EVEN ADVANCED FURTHER.

Creepy PS: when I took off from Laguardia, I asked my bro-in-law if I could fly in between the Twin Towers (remember, this was pre- 9/11). He said go ahead, but if I hit one of them, it would NOT be a pleasant experience in the simulator--would get thrown around in cockpit, etc.

I turned 90 degrees, split the towers, and then came in for a decent landing--ok, I bounced once--but I did land safely. Hardest part was having to reverse engines, which I wasn't used to--as fighter aicraft (my only experience in sims) don't have a need for this feature.

Whew, long winded. Oh--and don't forget the adage: "If you try to make the perfect simulator, you end up building the thing itself"

[Boris]

An arcade game is a coin-operated entertainment machine, usually installed in public businesses such as restaurants, public houses, and video arcades. Most arcade games are redemption games, merchandisers (such as claw crane), video games, or pinball machines.

SH5 is NOOOOOOT and never will be an arcade game. It's not even anywhere near the level of basic of FPS games, or jump and run games... and not even these games are arcade games. Games of the "arcade genre" have incredibly short levels, and it's all about high scores and stuff.

How in the hell can SH5 be called an arcade game?
SH5 will not be an ultra-realistic sim, but it's still a simulation.