Have I made a huge mistake?!

latearrival · 01-12-10, 06:20 AM

Hello.

I'm very new to this genre (about 10 hours with SH4!) and I wonder if anyone has an opinion or can help...

I just purchased SH4 (v1.3) from Steam, played for a few hours, and then went back to Steam and bought the U-Boat Missions, which seemed the easiest way to get to v1.5 (I wanted a read-out of my hull integrity, which didn't seem to exist on 1.3).

In my very limited experience, v1.3 seemed very stable, however v1.5 has been shocking. In the few hours hours that I've played v1.5, I've experienced:
- Crash to desktop;
- Being repeatedly told I'm passing the thermal layer when I'm cruising on the surface;
- Crew manning the conning tower when I'm submerged;
- Clouds on accelerated time, when the rest of the sim at 1x;

I'm running Windows 7 64bit. Have I made a huge mistake by getting the U-Boat Missions or is there a way I can get v1.5 working as it should?

Cheers!

(Until now I've been a flight-simmer, but sub-simming seems like it might be pretty cool!)

KlassenT · 01-12-10, 07:01 AM

The only bug I'm familiar with from what you mentioned is the crew manning the deck when submerged; I think the general consensus is that this is caused by real-time corruption of the game in active memory (as opposed to a problem with the game files stored on your hard drive.) This one is usually fixed by saving and fully exiting the game, then firing SH4 back up and loading the appropriate save. The thermal layers and accelerated clouds are new to me, BUT-- I had a fair share of problems getting the Steam distribution up and running.

Hopefully you're on broadband so it's not as much of an issue, but Steam implemented the U-Boat Missions addon very poorly, and that's coming from someone who's usually in Valve's corner, but I'll include a quick checklist of how to ensure a correct install in a bit.

Anyhow, the Steam updater doesn't fully understand that UBM will overwrite some of SH4's core files, and it's possible for the updater to loop back on itself. SH4 and UBM are considered seperate 'games' as far as Steam is concerned, so it's possible to have them both compete to try and keep their specific versions of files as the most recent.

I would definitely try a full system restart before trying my Steam shenanigans below, because having SH4 installed and running prior to even purchasing UBM shouldn't cause the competitive updating problem, but Valve works in mysterious ways at times.

I know it's a downloading headache, but I can verify that this trick will get things working and ensure that the most relevant files are coming downstream:

1. Delete the local content for both SH4 and UBM (From the right-click menu for each in the Steam 'My Games' list,)
2. Redownload the original SH4 completely; do not download UBM yet.
3. Right-click SH4 in 'My Games,' select 'Properties,' and then in the 'Local Files' tab, click to verify the local game cache.
4. When verification completes, head back to the Properties dialog, but this time, go the 'Updates' tab and select the option that does not automatically* update game files.
5. Redownload U-Boat. At this point, double-check to make sure that SH4 is not currently downloading any files, as this is generally where the problem would occur.
6. Once the download for UBM finishes, run a local cache verification on it with the method you used in step 3.
7. You should be ready to rock and roll-- Just remember to launch the game only using the U-Boat Missions entry in your Steam list, NOT the original SH4 entry*.

* (The reason for this is that, contrary to what you would think the program does when you disabled automatic updates in Step 4, "Automatic" in this case means it will go out and seek updates before you try and launch the game. There is currently no setting in Steam that explicitly disables updates being applied to your games, the only thing it controls is whether or not the platform will periodically check for updates on its own time, or whether it will wait until you attempt to launch the game before it checks for updates.)

---

Hopefully a restart will fix the problem so you don't have to sit through all the downloading and verifying; if you end up having to do it, I know you'll be cursing me the whole time you're waiting on it. Just remember I went through it too, so I know already know what a pain in the arse it is.

Edit: Oh, and welcome aboard! I'm about as new to Subsim as you are, as you might infer from my modest post count, but I promise you'll find everything you need here! When you get some time, I also encourage reading through all the stickied posts. There's a serious wealth of information there, and a whole lot of links to follow, but the advice and tutorials have already turned me into a more seasoned skipper, so go through them at whatever pace you can, it's worth it!

Sailor Steve · 01-12-10, 02:54 PM

WELCOME ABOARD!

Sounds like something got corrupted. Normally the UBM makes it more stable, not less.

Then, I never buy any game as a download, at least not unless there is no other alternative.

latearrival · 01-12-10, 03:44 PM

@KlassenT - thanks for going to all that trouble to share all that. I'll give the reboot another try and cross my fingers! Out of curiosity, why launch the U-Boot Missions entry from Steam? I've been doing the opposite.

@Sailor Steve - I agree that Steam games can be flakier than their physical counterparts (e.g., it's pretty poor that the Steam version of SHIV comes at v1.3, with no updates available on Steam). However, the instant downloads suit my impatient nature!

TwistedFemur · 01-12-10, 03:55 PM

shudda got SH4 Gold from Amazon.com its version 1.5 plus you get a disk.

KlassenT · 01-12-10, 08:00 PM

As far as Steam is concerned, both vanilla SH4 and U-Boat entries in the 'My Games' list both point to the same executable-- In fact, once you've updated to 1.5, there's no way to run the game without U-Boat being integrated. The reason I recommend launching U-Boat only is that in doing so, Steam will never try and verify the v1.3 files are installed, since it is the 1.3 files that are associated with vanilla SH4. Honestly, it's probably not that crucial since they do point to the exact same executable file, but it's just a little redundant measure of caution I've always taken. I admittedly had a lot of problems getting it running properly on my end, but on the bright side, once I got it figured out I've run upwards of a few dozen lengthy patrols and the only problems I've had since are the ones associated with shelling out of the program via Alt+Tab.

01-12-10, 06:20 AM	#1
latearrival Swabbie Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Posts: 9 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Have I made a huge mistake?! Hello. I'm very new to this genre (about 10 hours with SH4!) and I wonder if anyone has an opinion or can help... I just purchased SH4 (v1.3) from Steam, played for a few hours, and then went back to Steam and bought the U-Boat Missions, which seemed the easiest way to get to v1.5 (I wanted a read-out of my hull integrity, which didn't seem to exist on 1.3). In my very limited experience, v1.3 seemed very stable, however v1.5 has been shocking. In the few hours hours that I've played v1.5, I've experienced: - Crash to desktop; - Being repeatedly told I'm passing the thermal layer when I'm cruising on the surface; - Crew manning the conning tower when I'm submerged; - Clouds on accelerated time, when the rest of the sim at 1x; I'm running Windows 7 64bit. Have I made a huge mistake by getting the U-Boat Missions or is there a way I can get v1.5 working as it should? Cheers! (Until now I've been a flight-simmer, but sub-simming seems like it might be pretty cool!)

01-12-10, 02:54 PM	#3
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	WELCOME ABOARD! Sounds like something got corrupted. Normally the UBM makes it more stable, not less. Then, I never buy any game as a download, at least not unless there is no other alternative. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

01-12-10, 03:55 PM	#5
TwistedFemur Frogman Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 302 Downloads: 72 Uploads: 0	shudda got SH4 Gold from Amazon.com its version 1.5 plus you get a disk. __________________ <a href="http://www.dewmocracy.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.dewmocracy.com/images/banner_distortion.jpg" border="0" alt="Vote for MTN DEW(R) Distortion(TM) - Dewmocracy.com" /></a>

01-12-10, 07:01 AM	#2
KlassenT Mate Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 54 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 0	The only bug I'm familiar with from what you mentioned is the crew manning the deck when submerged; I think the general consensus is that this is caused by real-time corruption of the game in active memory (as opposed to a problem with the game files stored on your hard drive.) This one is usually fixed by saving and fully exiting the game, then firing SH4 back up and loading the appropriate save. The thermal layers and accelerated clouds are new to me, BUT-- I had a fair share of problems getting the Steam distribution up and running. Hopefully you're on broadband so it's not as much of an issue, but Steam implemented the U-Boat Missions addon very poorly, and that's coming from someone who's usually in Valve's corner, but I'll include a quick checklist of how to ensure a correct install in a bit. Anyhow, the Steam updater doesn't fully understand that UBM will overwrite some of SH4's core files, and it's possible for the updater to loop back on itself. SH4 and UBM are considered seperate 'games' as far as Steam is concerned, so it's possible to have them both compete to try and keep their specific versions of files as the most recent. I would definitely try a full system restart before trying my Steam shenanigans below, because having SH4 installed and running prior to even purchasing UBM shouldn't cause the competitive updating problem, but Valve works in mysterious ways at times. I know it's a downloading headache, but I can verify that this trick will get things working and ensure that the most relevant files are coming downstream: 1. Delete the local content for both SH4 and UBM (From the right-click menu for each in the Steam 'My Games' list,) 2. Redownload the original SH4 completely; do not download UBM yet. 3. Right-click SH4 in 'My Games,' select 'Properties,' and then in the 'Local Files' tab, click to verify the local game cache. 4. When verification completes, head back to the Properties dialog, but this time, go the 'Updates' tab and select the option that does not automatically* update game files. 5. Redownload U-Boat. At this point, double-check to make sure that SH4 is not currently downloading any files, as this is generally where the problem would occur. 6. Once the download for UBM finishes, run a local cache verification on it with the method you used in step 3. 7. You should be ready to rock and roll-- Just remember to launch the game only using the U-Boat Missions entry in your Steam list, NOT the original SH4 entry. (The reason for this is that, contrary to what you would think the program does when you disabled automatic updates in Step 4, "Automatic" in this case means it will go out and seek updates before you try and launch the game. There is currently no setting in Steam that explicitly disables updates being applied to your games, the only thing it controls is whether or not the platform will periodically check for updates on its own time, or whether it will wait until you attempt to launch the game before it checks for updates.) --- Hopefully a restart will fix the problem so you don't have to sit through all the downloading and verifying; if you end up having to do it, I know you'll be cursing me the whole time you're waiting on it. Just remember I went through it too, so I know already know what a pain in the arse it is. Edit: Oh, and welcome aboard! I'm about as new to Subsim as you are, as you might infer from my modest post count, but I promise you'll find everything you need here! When you get some time, I also encourage reading through all the stickied posts. There's a serious wealth of information there, and a whole lot of links to follow, but the advice and tutorials have already turned me into a more seasoned skipper, so go through them at whatever pace you can, it's worth it!

01-12-10, 03:44 PM	#4
latearrival Swabbie Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Posts: 9 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	@KlassenT - thanks for going to all that trouble to share all that. I'll give the reboot another try and cross my fingers! Out of curiosity, why launch the U-Boot Missions entry from Steam? I've been doing the opposite. @Sailor Steve - I agree that Steam games can be flakier than their physical counterparts (e.g., it's pretty poor that the Steam version of SHIV comes at v1.3, with no updates available on Steam). However, the instant downloads suit my impatient nature!

01-12-10, 08:00 PM	#6
KlassenT Mate Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 54 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 0	As far as Steam is concerned, both vanilla SH4 and U-Boat entries in the 'My Games' list both point to the same executable-- In fact, once you've updated to 1.5, there's no way to run the game without U-Boat being integrated. The reason I recommend launching U-Boat only is that in doing so, Steam will never try and verify the v1.3 files are installed, since it is the 1.3 files that are associated with vanilla SH4. Honestly, it's probably not that crucial since they do point to the exact same executable file, but it's just a little redundant measure of caution I've always taken. I admittedly had a lot of problems getting it running properly on my end, but on the bright side, once I got it figured out I've run upwards of a few dozen lengthy patrols and the only problems I've had since are the ones associated with shelling out of the program via Alt+Tab.