Calvert's "Silent Running"

DigitalAura · 09-25-09, 01:25 PM

I'm reading through John Calvert's autobiographical account of his years aboard the USS Jack. It's a great read...but some things leave me questioning some of gameplay in SH4.

For example, Calvert claims that the IJN loved to ping as they sailed. He said that their crew relied on hearing the Japanese long before they could pick them up on radar or passive sonar. For this reason, the Jack didn't use active sonar at all.

In my recollection, I don't think I've ever 'discovered' an enemy ship on account of their use of active sonar giving them away...
Am I correct to assume that this wasn't coded into the game?
And can someone tell me if there's a way to isolate a target who is pinging your sub? I wouldn't know how to go about doing that.

There's other things too, I'll have to check the book again...

SteamWake · 09-25-09, 01:45 PM

Subs very rarely used 'active' sonar. Even then it was only to confirm range to target.

As far as the IJN sailing around pinging away perhaps they did but why? Most task forces are hauling butt at flank and couldent get a decent return anyhow.

You can still hear them comming alot further off than you can see them so there is some truth to that.

09-25-09, 02:04 PM

Am always careful with first person accounts. Comparing the patrols narrated by Herbert Werner in Iron Coffins with the historical records of those same patrols can be instructive.

I got a sense that Calvert tended to trivialize details but its still a good read as you said.

Sometimes authors will write what they expect their audiance to see and when people think of submarines they automatically think 'Ping' even if they have no idea what a 'Ping' might represent.

On the other hand it's possible that constant active searching was doctrinal for the areas that Jack operated in.

09-25-09, 04:26 PM

i dont know if you knew this but in case nobody told you, the game is very dissapointing as far as trying to recreate accurate tactics and stategy so it is very hard to follow what they did in real life situations because of game limitations.

DigitalAura · 09-25-09, 05:02 PM

Quote:

" Comparing the patrols narrated by Herbert Werner in Iron Coffins with the historical records of those same patrols can be instructive"

Oh good! That's the next book in my pile!

Quote:

"the game is very dissapointing as far as trying to recreate accurate tactics and stategy"

That's interesting! They got so much right, that it is surprising to me that this kind of detailing could be overlooked. Especially since, in this case, it's not the result of a physical or game limitation as much as a historical oversight. Behaviour of AI is easily coded...even modded.

=============================================

Another thing I was surprised about was the incredible reliance the navigators had on their sextant and the stars in the wee morning hours. We take it for granted, but it looks to me like most times submariners didn't know if they were 20 miles off or 20 yards off. They really depended on LANDFALLS, which would be really cool werre it somehow implemented in game.

Also, I was surprised at the number of night encounters with aircraft in the book. I've never seen a plane even on radar in the game after sunset... and even more odd, never even seen a friendly ever! The navy used two letter challenge and response codes when they met. They'd signal with a 'blinker' gun to each other.
Now THAT would be fantastic to simulate in game.

Armistead · 09-25-09, 05:11 PM

As I understand it and I read this long detailed explanation long ago, they're always pinging when in moving convoys, ect. Wish I could find it again.

The bug is you don't hear it unless you are picked up by it.

It seemed true, because fast tracking DD's shouldn't be able to pick you up.

Have you even noticed your going in to attack, then a dd makes his standard turn and get's his bow facing you. At the exact second you hear the ping or the ping happens when you get in his sonar game. So maybe it's true it is on....just what I read long ago. The way the game works it appears true.

Seems to me they're always pinging, you just can't hear it until you're picked up in their sonar cone.

However, once they find you is when they will go passive

Why it's important to stay out of their sonar cone when attacking.

09-25-09, 01:25 PM	#1
DigitalAura Straight and True Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: CANADA Posts: 276 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Calvert's "Silent Running" I'm reading through John Calvert's autobiographical account of his years aboard the USS Jack. It's a great read...but some things leave me questioning some of gameplay in SH4. For example, Calvert claims that the IJN loved to ping as they sailed. He said that their crew relied on hearing the Japanese long before they could pick them up on radar or passive sonar. For this reason, the Jack didn't use active sonar at all. In my recollection, I don't think I've ever 'discovered' an enemy ship on account of their use of active sonar giving them away... Am I correct to assume that this wasn't coded into the game? And can someone tell me if there's a way to isolate a target who is pinging your sub? I wouldn't know how to go about doing that. There's other things too, I'll have to check the book again... __________________ ... ALL YOUR BEACH ARE BELONG TO US! ...

09-25-09, 01:45 PM	#2
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Subs very rarely used 'active' sonar. Even then it was only to confirm range to target. As far as the IJN sailing around pinging away perhaps they did but why? Most task forces are hauling butt at flank and couldent get a decent return anyhow. You can still hear them comming alot further off than you can see them so there is some truth to that. __________________ Follow the progress of Mr. Mulligan : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147648

09-25-09, 02:04 PM	#3
Randomizer Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Am always careful with first person accounts. Comparing the patrols narrated by Herbert Werner in Iron Coffins with the historical records of those same patrols can be instructive. I got a sense that Calvert tended to trivialize details but its still a good read as you said. Sometimes authors will write what they expect their audiance to see and when people think of submarines they automatically think 'Ping' even if they have no idea what a 'Ping' might represent. On the other hand it's possible that constant active searching was doctrinal for the areas that Jack operated in.

09-25-09, 04:26 PM	#4
Webster Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	i dont know if you knew this but in case nobody told you, the game is very dissapointing as far as trying to recreate accurate tactics and stategy so it is very hard to follow what they did in real life situations because of game limitations.

09-25-09, 05:11 PM	#6
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	As I understand it and I read this long detailed explanation long ago, they're always pinging when in moving convoys, ect. Wish I could find it again. The bug is you don't hear it unless you are picked up by it. It seemed true, because fast tracking DD's shouldn't be able to pick you up. Have you even noticed your going in to attack, then a dd makes his standard turn and get's his bow facing you. At the exact second you hear the ping or the ping happens when you get in his sonar game. So maybe it's true it is on....just what I read long ago. The way the game works it appears true. Seems to me they're always pinging, you just can't hear it until you're picked up in their sonar cone. However, once they find you is when they will go passive Why it's important to stay out of their sonar cone when attacking.