Suicides don't go to heaven but murder's do?

[Platapus]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/23/...ead/index.html

Dad admits killings to reporters, blames crime on 'spirit'

A Florida man admitted to reporters that he killed his wife and five "innocent" children, adding that he wants to be executed "right away" so he can be buried with them on Saturday.

Mesac Damas spoke with reporters in Haiti, saying a "spirit" drove him to kill his wife and children.







Mesac Damas, 32, said he wanted to take his own life, but did not have the courage to go through with it, "because if you kill yourself, you're not going to heaven."

...

But if you murder your wife and children you think you will go to heaven???


Jus not understandin this

[August]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Jus not understandin this

Count yourself lucky then Platapus. If you did you'd be as looney as he is...

[UnderseaLcpl]

This belief has its' roots in the Catholic Church of the Dark and Middle Ages, as I understand it. I do not claim to be an expert in current or historical Catholic belief but I believe that St. Thomas Aquinas had something to do with this sort of thing, and that the machinations of the church at that time turned suicide into a sort of business. Given that the man lives in Haiti, there is a strong possibility that he is Catholic.

This is only my opinion, based upon what I have heard, but the Catholic Church used to allow family members of the departed to purchase "indulgences" for the departed. This was a major factor when it came to suicides, as the suicidal generally did not confess their sins and affirm their faith in Jesus Christ before they died. Even if they did confess and repent their sins, they would have one sin they could repent for: suicide.
The burden of repentance would then fall to their family members. If they did not have any family members to inherit their property, it became the property of the Church as a form of indulgence, as any unwilled posessions were supposed to "go to God" (in the form of the church, of course).

Though that is only my opinion, I am inclined to believe that it is mostly based in fact because of the Catholic Church's longstanding tradition of taking the property of those who died and left no heirs. The Inquisition is a good example of this, as is the practice of avoiding marriage to up to 4th-degree cousins.

That last part bears a bit of explaining. During the dark and middle ages, overland transportation was extremely limited, and even coastal sea travel was hazardous. The length and hazards of long-distance travel at the time made choices amongst marriage partners difficult once the church imposed its' sanction. Couple that with the constant feuds between noble houses of differing (or even vaguely similar lineage), and the high infant mortality rate, and you have a foolproof recipe for a constant transfer of heirless property to the Church. Furthermore, consider the patriarchal lineage that most houses used, and the frequency of death amongst nobles (all men, amazingly) who went to battle.

Knowing what I do of you, Platapus, it should be no great logical leap for you to understand exactly how this man arrived in his situation, given the information I have provided. That however, is not to say that I am correct, only that my advice on the subject should be fairly clear.

In any case, I still stand as a proud member of the protestant sect. Surely our reinterpretation of the Cotholic beliefs and practices cannot be wrong, right?

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

This belief has its' roots in the Catholic Church of the Dark and Middle Ages, as I understand it. I do not claim to be an expert in current or historical Catholic belief but I believe that St. Thomas Aquinas had something to do with this sort of thing, and that the machinations of the church at that time turned suicide into a sort of business. Given that the man lives in Haiti, there is a strong possibility that he is Catholic.

This is only my opinion, based upon what I have heard, but the Catholic Church used to allow family members of the departed to purchase "indulgences" for the departed. This was a major factor when it came to suicides, as the suicidal generally did not confess their sins and affirm their faith in Jesus Christ before they died. Even if they did confess and repent their sins, they would have one sin they could repent for: suicide.
The burden of repentance would then fall to their family members. If they did not have any family members to inherit their property, it became the property of the Church as a form of indulgence, as any unwilled posessions were supposed to "go to God" (in the form of the church, of course).

Though that is only my opinion, I am inclined to believe that it is mostly based in fact because of the Catholic Church's longstanding tradition of taking the property of those who died and left no heirs. The Inquisition is a good example of this, as is the practice of avoiding marriage to up to 4th-degree cousins.

That last part bears a bit of explaining. During the dark and middle ages, overland transportation was extremely limited, and even coastal sea travel was hazardous. The length and hazards of long-distance travel at the time made choices amongst marriage partners difficult once the church imposed its' sanction. Couple that with the constant feuds between noble houses of differing (or even vaguely similar lineage), and the high infant mortality rate, and you have a foolproof recipe for a constant transfer of heirless property to the Church. Furthermore, consider the patriarchal lineage that most houses used, and the frequency of death amongst nobles (all men, amazingly) who went to battle.

Knowing what I do of you, Platapus, it should be no great logical leap for you to understand exactly how this man arrived in his situation, given the information I have provided. That however, is not to say that I am correct, only that my advice on the subject should be fairly clear.

In any case, I still stand as a proud member of the protestant sect. Surely our reinterpretation of the Cotholic beliefs and practices cannot be wrong, right?

This. To add a few details, it wasn't originally a sin to commit suicide in the early Dark Ages. The serfs were promised all sorts of rewards in the after life, but they had to work hard. And they serfs, as we all know, worked for the nobles- which also consisted of clergymen for a long time (before there was a definitive split). Life basically sucked as a serf, and as time went on, they figured out "Why should we work our asses off here and now when we could just skip that by killing ourselves and getting the eternal rewards?".

So as suicides began becoming more and more common, the Catholic Church decreed it to be a sin- and that one would be sent straight to hell for wasting the lord's gift of life. They kept their workforce strong and were able to keep on making money. The nobles also convinced the clergy to work towards making it a sin as well, especially the Frankish ones.

[Reece]

You are right August, I'm a Christian but this guy's a total nut case, wouldn't want to be in his shoes on Judgment day!! You have to wonder what goes on in the minds of people like this!!

[Letum]

May he stay on death row just long enough to be cured of his suicidal tendencies.

[SteamWake]

Its Hati for cryin out loud.

[HunterICX]

Originally Posted by Platapus

But if you murder your wife and children you think you will go to heaven???


Jus not understandin this

He probally missed the part where you actually go to hell and get hot pokers up your arse till the end of times.

HunterICX

[clive bradbury]

Originally Posted by HunterICX

He probally missed the part where you actually go to hell and get hot pokers up your arse till the end of times.

HunterICX

...better than living in Haiti...

[nikimcbee]

That depends, did they do it in allah's name? I hear you get great results if you do it in allah's name, like a free buffet ticket on fridays, or a coupon for a free swanson pork potpie.

[nikimcbee]

Asked by the reporter in Haiti why he killed his family, Damas responded, "Only God knows." Questioned further, he blamed the crime on his mother-in-law. "Her mom pretty much made me do it -- the devil, her spirit, whatever she worships," he said.

Burn her at the stake

Its the mother-in-laws fault. Works for me.