Geronimo

[Skybird]

Curios.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8112051.stm

While I personally find the idea to put importance on relocating the dead a hundred years later a bit strange, I wonder however, why a secret society must steal body parts from a grave, and why the justice ministry must try to influence a judge in a running court procedure to not accept a complaint to this theft.

Maybe that some noble, honourable members of society are not being connected to this secret organisation, by preventing any disucssion about the organisation itself?

[Jimbuna]

This refers to long-standing allegations that members of the Skull and Bones Society, including Prescott Bush, the grandfather of George W Bush, broke into Geronimo's tomb and stole his skull and other bones to keep in their clubhouse in New Haven.

I'm just wondering if the above has any bearing on the issue

They use the skull of Geronimo in secret rituals. Very fitting considering they live on the lands stolen from the indigenous people.

[Sailor Steve]

As do most of us, no matter where we live. One question, though: how do steal something from someone who openly claims he doesn't own it?

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

As do most of us, no matter where we live. One question, though: how do steal something from someone who openly claims he doesn't own it?

I was not aware that any "native" Americans claimed to not own anything, especially not the Apaches. They routinely took ownership of other people and their lands, and were regarded as being amongst the most savage and heartless of tribes, even amongst native americans. Certainly, there were more peaceful tribes, but they loathed tribes like the Apaches. They were stone-age people who lived a brutish exsistence full of inter-tribal warfare and that is all there is to the story. If they had develeloped metalworking and gunpowder and sailed to Europe in the 8th century, there is no reason to believe that we would have recieved any greater degree of mercy. That's just how things were back then. The myth of the noble savage is just that, a myth.

That is not to say that I approve of the way that the native Americans were treated. In truth, I find their treatment deploreable, even to this day, but they are note and were never the peaceful, earth-loving, harmonious people that popular culture tends to portray them as being.
It is one thing to use every part of the buffalo because you revere its' spirit and have a bond with nature, it is quite another to revere the buffalo and use every part of it because you are a starving and primitive person who doesn't know where his next meal is coming from.

At best, this lawsuit is a misguided attempt to restore a false cultural identity. At worst it is just another example of man's desire to force others to serve his interests.

edit- not a rebuttal of any kind, Steve, just an extension of the argument from my perspective.

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

I was not aware that any "native" Americans claimed to not own anything, especially not the Apaches. They routinely took ownership of other people and their lands, and were regarded as being amongst the most savage and heartless of tribes, even amongst native americans. Certainly, there were more peaceful tribes, but they loathed tribes like the Apaches. They were stone-age people who lived a brutish exsistence full of inter-tribal warfare and that is all there is to the story. If they had develeloped metalworking and gunpowder and sailed to Europe in the 8th century, there is no reason to believe that we would have recieved any greater degree of mercy. That's just how things were back then. The myth of the noble savage is just that, a myth.

That is not to say that I approve of the way that the native Americans were treated. In truth, I find their treatment deploreable, even to this day, but they are note and were never the peaceful, earth-loving, harmonious people that popular culture tends to portray them as being.
It is one thing to use every part of the buffalo because you revere its' spirit and have a bond with nature, it is quite another to revere the buffalo and use every part of it because you are a starving and primitive person who doesn't know where his next meal is coming from.

At best, this lawsuit is a misguided attempt to restore a false cultural identity. At worst it is just another example of man's desire to force others to serve his interests.

edit- not a rebuttal of any kind, Steve, just an extension of the argument from my perspective.

The issue of restoration of the indigenous lands in the area of present day US is very much alive. Many native tribes live in conditions resembling those of the third world. The most downtrodden of all US minorities, the 'Indian wars' have never really ended and the wholesale genocide of natives is still continuing to this day and will continue into the future.