Suicidal Chinese Man Pushed Over Edge

[Aramike]

This is an interesting story: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,...est=latestnews

From the article:

Chen Fuchao, a man heavily in debt, had been contemplating suicide on a bridge in southern China for hours when a passer-by came up, shook his hand — and pushed him off the ledge.

Also from the article:

I pushed him off because jumpers like Chen are very selfish. Their action violates a lot of public interest," Lai was quoted as saying by Xinhua. "They do not really dare to kill themselves. Instead, they just want to raise the relevant government authorities' attention to their appeals."

Okay, clearly pushing the man over the edge is not the "right" thing to do. However, this begs the question: did the man pushing the suicidal man do anything wrong? Think about: if the suicidal man is truly suicidal, wouldn't the result be a foregone conclusion, anyway? If not, then is the man truly suicidal, or rather is he simply seeking attention?

Please share your thoughts. I have my own, but I'd like to see the conversation shape itself without my initial leanings.

[Arclight]

My initial thought is that it's similar to assisted suicide. Not a "bad" thing to do IMO, if the person truly wishes it to be that way, but whether or not this was the case is impossible to determine in this scenario.

If the person was in fact going to jump, and assisted suicide is allowed by law, I don't think the guy who pushed the other did anything wrong.

Still, pretty bizarre story.

[AngusJS]

Traffic around the Haizhu bridge in the city of Guangzhou had been backed up for five hours and police had cordoned off the area.

That's all the justification the guy needed. Let him go!

The "jumper" only fell 26 feet. He probably spent all that time trying to think of a higher point to leap from. He's in Guangzhou. Why didn't he jump off a skyscraper?

But seriously, the jumper is the only one who knows if he's suicidal or not, and especially as he was injured in the fall, the guy who pushed him should be punished.

[Platapus]

Where in the dreary capitol of our nation, there is a bridge called the Wilson bridge. Naturally this is a chokepoint for the crappy traffic we have to endure here.

A few years ago, this jerk was standing on the Wilson bridge and threatening suicide. Unfortunately he did not follow through with his threats.

For some reason still not understood, the law enforcement people decided it was necessary to block off all six lanes of this bridge while this jerk was vacillating. This F-ed up traffic for hours.

I am sure there were many many commuters who would have gladly pushed this jerk off and gotten it over with. Drivers were calling up radio stations to vent about this.

I think when the police were able to pull him off the edge, they had to put him in immediate protective custody as he was immediately one of the most hated people in the DC area.

[JALU3]

I for one am not a supporter of "assisted suicide". There are plenty of ways to kill yourself, by yourself, without the need of others help.

If there is a Jumper, say off the Coronado Bridge, I can understand restricting one lane of traffic, like they do for road repair, or what not, but all lanes is a bit over the top IMHO.
Now if it were to be a high rise, clear the area below, least someone be walking by and get hit with a body on the way down. If someone wants to commit suicide, that's up to them, but there's no need to take others who don't want to die with them.

[porphy]

Obviously the only one looking for attention was the pusher. He will rightfully find himself in court, hopefully charged with attempted murder.

I can't even start to see a problem or anything unclear about if he was doing something wrong, morally or legally, in this case, as it is described in the article. Trying to dress this up as a moral dilemma or a vague legal situation doesn't work at all.

cheers Porphy

Well I don't know porphy , several times I have said to a friend over the past year "next time the bastard does it either just leave him to hypothermia or put your boot on his head to push him out of the eddy"
Suicide is selfish , and in the case I refer to the selfish bastard has not only wasted both taxpayers money and charitable donations he has also wasted the time of the Gardai ,Fire brigade and Lifeboatmen , but most importantly he has also risked their lives (and of course disrupted traffic, but as O'Briens bridge doesn't get much traffic anyway since pedestrianisation and traffic in Galway is screwed anyway that isn't really an issue) (OK he could do another bridge for his "suicide" and screw up traffic even more but they don't have the same eddies without the undertow so he would die like most of the other selfish bastards)

[porphy]

I think the question was if the pusher was doing something wrong, not if suicide is the ultimate selfish thing. Anyway, according to you view on suicide, I would say that if one push the guy, you just helped him out with the most selfish thing. So that would still be a clear wrong to me.


Cheers Porphy

[XabbaRus]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Well I don't know porphy , several times I have said to a friend over the past year "next time the bastard does it either just leave him to hypothermia or put your boot on his head to push him out of the eddy"
Suicide is selfish , and in the case I refer to the selfish bastard has not only wasted both taxpayers money and charitable donations he has also wasted the time of the Gardai ,Fire brigade and Lifeboatmen , but most importantly he has also risked their lives (and of course disrupted traffic, but as O'Briens bridge doesn't get much traffic anyway since pedestrianisation and traffic in Galway is screwed anyway that isn't really an issue) (OK he could do another bridge for his "suicide" and screw up traffic even more but they don't have the same eddies without the undertow so he would die like most of the other selfish bastards)

Sorry tribeman can't agrere with you there. Having viewed mental inllness up close and dealt with someone who is suicidal you can't second guess what is going on. I also don't think suicide is necessarily selfish. Your entitled to your opion but I do object to them being called bastards.

[August]

Originally Posted by porphy

Obviously the only one looking for attention was the pusher. He will rightfully find himself in court, hopefully charged with attempted murder.

Is it really attempted murder with a huge and brightly covered air bag positioned just a few feet right below the pushee?

[bookworm_020]

Originally Posted by August

Is it really attempted murder with a huge and brightly covered air bag positioned just a few feet right below the pushee?

A bag that wasn't fully inflated before the guy pushed him! He should be greatful that the guy he pushed isn't sueing him for pain and suffering!

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by August

Is it really attempted murder with a huge and brightly covered air bag positioned just a few feet right below the pushee?

Heh, hell no. I, for one, guarantee that many people on this very board would be thinking about doing the same thing in the same situation...

...however, it doesn't make it right, as much as I'd like it to be. Suicidal people make things difficult as it is hard to punish those who don't really give a damn any longer. That is, until they feel the pain of a couple of broken bones.

Look, I don't advocate pushing any suicidal individual over the brink. However, that being said, I have to ask ... why give a crap? If you're standing on the precipice you better have made your decision, as far as I'm concerned.

If this person really wanted to die, he didn't need to do it so publically. What this person wanted was attention - but he clearly didn't think about the individual he caused to lose his job due to tardiness, that may just kill himself over being unemployed and unable to support his family, but will do so quietly...

Or maybe he did think, and didn't care.

In any case, cops should have nets to fire at fools like this. However, jump or no jump - idiots have no right to interfere with the lives of others.

[porphy]

Originally Posted by August

Is it really attempted murder with a huge and brightly covered air bag positioned just a few feet right below the pushee?

Could very well be. At least in Sweden you can be found guilty of murder by three sorts of legal premeditation.

1. Intention to kill the victim.
2. Circumstances show, or you admit, that you have acted to prevent a person from doing something, by lethal means.
3. You can also be found guilty of murder if you act in a way where you don't really care if the other persons lives or dies, as a result of your earlier intentional actions which you couldn't know the outcome of, but at the same time it can be made probable that you would have acted the same way even if you did knew about the deadly outcome. (This is a close call to manslaughter, but by ruling murder the judge shows that you face full responsibility and a higher degree of punishment.)

To me the person pushing the guy of the bridge should clearly be a suspect of attempted murder along one these lines, probably number three. As the guy that was pushed of did survive it won't be murder, obviously, but the case for attempted murder could follow the same sort of reasoning.

The air bag (half inflated) and the height (26', not a few feet) of the drop are circumstances to take into account, but what really counts is the intention of the pusher. His reason stated to the police was that he was fed up with selfish people that doesn't dare to kill themselves but seek attention and also disrupt public life. That could very well be the motive for an attempted murder. From what we know about his motive, he might have tried to push the guy in a way so he would fall 26 feet (7-8 meters) and miss the air bag or hit it before it was fully functional, as he was so upset with this selfish man that he thought himself righteous to cause him harm or even death.

So, in the light of his admittedly brief statement, how is the brightly coloured air bag and the height of 26' (7-8 meters) stopping his motive and actions from fitting well with an attempted murder charge along the lines of 2 or 3? Or even 1?

The thing is, we don't know very much of his intention with the pushing, although we know a bit of his motive, and that combined with his actions certainly makes him a suspect for attempted murder. But only further investigation can show if this is correct, or if he should be charged with something else, as the pushing clearly is legally a crime whether the guy was suicidal or not.


porphy

[Highbury]

Originally Posted by Arclight

My initial thought is that it's similar to assisted suicide. Not a "bad" thing to do IMO, if the person truly wishes it to be that way, but whether or not this was the case is impossible to determine in this scenario.

If the person was in fact going to jump, and assisted suicide is allowed by law, I don't think the guy who pushed the other did anything wrong.

Still, pretty bizarre story.

So called "Assisted Suicide" is a pact between two people. If one person states they want to die so another pulls out a gun shoots him is that assisted suicide? lol. I think the fact that the suicidal person had no idea it was comin' changes things.

[Arclight]

Originally Posted by Highbury

So called "Assisted Suicide" is a pact between two people. If one person states they want to die so another pulls out a gun shoots him is that assisted suicide?

Yep, as far as I'm concerned.

Whether it's a doctor administering some drug, or someone shooting another in the face, they are just different means to the same end.