turkey stalls NATO over reasons of religion and freedom of speech

[Skybird]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7982775.stm

Turkey has followed it's threat to block the naming of a new general secretary, on the main reason of not a Kurdish radio station allowed to broadcast from Denmark, but about the Danish prime ministre's defence of freedom of speech and his non-withdrawing stand during the Muhammad-cartoon rows when he refused to censor medias in compliance with Islamic demands. That way Turkey sends a clear signal that it wants free speech and free media being forbidden if they do not bow to Islamic demands, and stalls the NATO summit and prevents the candiate that all other 27 NATO members want. Turkey also lists as a foul excuse it'S concern about what other islamic nations may think abou NATO - as if non-NATO-members would have any word in the issue, or NATO has any obligation to comply with Islamic demands.

Just imagine the power given to Turkey to block all Europe if europe does not comply with the Turkish fundamentalist government's intention to push Islam in europe, if Turkey would be allowed into the EU. Instead of considering Turkey'S EU membership, we should start thinking about how to get this foreign, Europe-hostile power out of NATO as well. We have to finally learn it: Islam wants very different things than what NATO, the EU, and Western constitutions and cultural values want, and before sharing values with europe and being part of european culture, Turkey in the main is this: idslamic, and the AKP being a deeply fundamentalist party. Turkish society and adminstrative and government offices have suffered a seriouzs Isdlamisation since the AKP took over. The rural areas, I know by experience, always have been arch-Islamic and extremely conservative anyway. This is where the vast majority of Turkish population lives. Only tourists never leaving their tourist ressorts judge the country by it's Westenised hotel culture and metropoles. But you do not learn Mexico by drinking Tequila in a hotel lobby.

There is no doubt, however, that the western Islam-friendly masochists and the philantrophic friends of peaceful multicultural mankind will do their best to hammer home the message and burn it into our brains again that Turkey's objection is legitimate and that religion and Islam - as always - have nothing, really nothing to do with it. In the end, limiting free speech and free media in the name of free, unlimited Islam, is no limitation at all, but a cultural gain for all, isn't it.

Poor German hosts of the summit. Merkel without doubt will do her best to reinterpret the desaster as a success. But instead of doing that, the Turkish policy should be let shine in the mdia unhindered - so that finally, finally even the last sleeping drunk idiot in the most forsaken back corner of the european wilderness gets the message that islam and European culture are two very different and very antagonistic things, and that it is of utmost priority not to allow neither Turkey nor any other non-European, islamic country into the EU. It's bad enough that the gang-territories of Albania already have allowed into NATO recently.

[Schroeder]

We really should make sure that this country doesn't join the EU.
It's already bad enough as it is even without them.

[Skybird]

Brandnew in, Obama bought the turks by newly creating a special office just for them. While they are said to agree to Rasmussen, I object this move, since I do not like the prospect of such Bakshish being payed to an ideologic blackmailer, and because the new office should especially govern NATO'S relation to Muslim nations. What is so special about Muslim nations that these need a special office beside the already existing General secretary of NATO? So, from now on there will be a weakened General Secretary, a NATO top leadership now needing to synchronise three instead of just two tongues (General Secretary, Military Top Commander, and this new Turkish office), and we again deliovered Islam the message that wer accept Islam to play a special role in the world that we accept by designing special terms and procedures just for it, and that nobody else int he world needs or wants.

Fantastic.

Everything but conflict. Pay every price, no matter how high it may be, just to avoid confronting the problem and maintaining the impression that all is nice and well. Take me by the word - it is only a question of time befopre the Turks want more bowing of NATO to Islam. Like they already demand - and practice - massive national Turkish influence in internal German policy making in order to boost Turkish islam in Germany, save it from needing to adapt to German cultural standards and ddefending Turks from any demand for integration - a reasonable and justified demand for integration that Erdogan just some months ago brandmarked as a crime against humanity, when he called Turks in Germany during his German visit to actively resist any calls for integration, and remain Turkish, and stay for themselves. Translating that from Turkish to Western language: you do not demand Islam to integrate and adapt to your home culture - but you adapt yourself to it, even in your home country, and give Islam special status that even your home religion does not claim anymore.

Obama showed some signs of naivety recently. A world without nuclear weapons, and a roadmap for that, he said, just two days ago, ignoring in that speech any thought about that being a mutual deal, and ignoring north Korea, Iran. And having decided for massive boosts of finacial aid to Pakistan - a totally misled, naive waste of money and direct support for the enemies which I bitterly criticised already during the Bush era. And now this honoring of Turkish claims for a special role for Islam. He means it well, no doubt - but you can do huge damage even when meaning it well. And most of the time this seem to happen: the greater damages often are done by those meaning it well.

Unluckily the world is grey, not black and white. And politics have to adjust to that. Not a condition I like, not at all, and I generally agree to what was said here.

But now that the deed is done and destructive ramblings won't help the case at all, I'd like to give an alternative outlook towards the event, Tukeys success in influencing NATO politics is a convincing arguments for the NATOs reputation of respecting their member countries, no matter the cultural background.

And we are in urgent need of some believeability in some parts of the world.

[Skybird]

What you call respectability in this case will be understood as a sign of weakness and thus an invitation to push for more. do you really believe that all the muslim world outraged over the cartoons did not know it was behaving ridiculous and hysteric? Many, especially the power elites, knew that, but being noisy is their weapon of choice to make the West fall back one more step.

And then another step.

And one more step.

And one more small step.

Don't worry, it's always just one small step, so what should happen from that.

But a twothousand small steps make a mile.

Like Christians priests not understanding that if they offer their churches for muslim communities and inviting them to celebrate Muhammads birthday in there together with Christmas - Islam does not understand this as a sign of tolerance, but as a heavenly sign of the imminent readiness of the West to surrender and to submit.

For the record, there seem to be confusion about what the Turks got for real, and several news sources give contradicting information. So far I have heared and read three different versions. Nevertheless, what I said above - in principle remains to be true, no matter what.

And one thing, Bewolf: for Islam, like for any kind of totalitarian ideology that is drunken of itself, the world is not grey. It is strictly separated into black and white, and the black tries to take over what is white until nothing else than black is left anymore. Islam itself says it very clearly - if only Westerners would listen to it's words instead of telling it that they know better than Islam what Islam is - , and ironcially in much the same words like Bush did: you're either with it, or against it. There is neither muclticulturalism nor neutrality, there is only Islam pushing on, or Islam being too weak for the moment and waiting until it is strong eough again to push on. There is neither true peace, nor defeat. There is only delay of victory. that is what the Islamic concept of evolution is, and it is pretty much unavoidable, and God-wanted. Being Islamic is the fate and future and role of mankind. Compared to that the Nazi claims for rulership by an Arien Herrenrasse in were relatively moderate, and it's role in history much more earthly and man-made in nature. - Or why did you think I see red so often when it comes to Islam?

do you really believe that all the muslim world outraged over the cartoons did not know it was behaving ridiculous and hysteric?

Even though I agreed to your postings before and I never even remotely touched this topic, which makes me wonder why you ask me this question, I will state "no". I do not believe that.

But I believe that every country is more diverse then just one big block we put all our prejudices upon.
That those in power are not interested in a change of policy is a given. I do not expect any effects taking place anytime soon, Germany required 101 years from the first democratic attempts in the revolution of 1848 to the first working and lasting one in 1949, and it required several unification wars and two world wars to achieve this.
And Turkey has much more potential for a democratic islamic society based on human rights then I think she is given credit for.

But this is not so much about results "now", but investing into the future.