Qua vadis, Europe, Germany?

Skybird · 02-25-09, 07:09 AM

http://www.ip-global.org/archiv/2009...ng-europe.html

A solid and good read.

Respenus · 02-25-09, 08:09 AM

Pending the discussion the the democratic deficit of Europe which we usually find ourselves when talking about the EU and its problems, the article Skybird posted can be quoted as the truth. Even though we have seen extreme developments on the field of CFSP and ESDP, which is unprecedented in the "EU"'s 50+ year old span, we are still but a number a bickering nations, each one looking after its own agenda and only the big players are usually ready to make some small concessions, yet then (usually) the Poles and the Czechs come flying in, ruining the hard laid work done by the EU institutions.

Frankly, I hope for a day when there will be one representative, one phone number and frankly Skybird, what ever you say about the EU, the article's author seemed willing to expect the EU as a world player, as long as we get our act together. Right now, we can only wait and see which cours the EU will take and let's hope it will be the favourable one.

Fish · 02-25-09, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Respenus

Right now, we can only wait and see which cours the EU will take and let's hope it will be the favourable one.

Amen to that.

trekchu · 02-25-09, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Respenus

Right now, we can only wait and see which cours the EU will take and let's hope it will be the favourable one.

Amen to that.

Agreed.

Respenus · 02-26-09, 03:47 AM

You know, as strange as this might sound, I was always in favour of direct EU citizen action. That is why I am so excited about the Lisbon, as it will enable ordinary citizens like you and me and stand up and propose what we see should be the right course for the EU and Europe in general. Sure, it is only a recommendation to the EU Parliament and the Council of the EU, yet still. There was already something similar done about the EP moving between Brussels and Strasbourg, yet at the time it was not yet institutionalised.

Skybird · 02-26-09, 07:26 AM

The dictate of Lisbon will also allow national governments to take every proposal they can't get through parliaments at home to the EU commission, having them turning it into an official EU commission demand of any of the various forms available - that the national parliamnets then have to turn into valid laws and must wave through parlimant without resistance. It also allows the commission to govern and rule by a policy of emergcny decrees - without "emergency" being defined anywhere, but such decrees overruling the Eu parliament anyway.

This dicate of isbon is not a strengthening of checks and balances, demcoratic legitimiation, and demcoracy in general. It is to establish a governing elite that must not undergo such legitimation by the european people, and can rule as a reincrantion of the former eastern block "polit bureaus" - who were tyrannies indeed, nevertheless called themselves democratic.

Just the way of manipulation, intimidation, pressing for agreement to Lisbon, and avoiding that the people get asked - just this alone shows where the train is heading. this is indeed about stronger governing of europe. At the price of a silent dismantling of democracy.

Pah.

02-25-09, 07:09 AM	#1
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,614 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Qua vadis, Europe, Germany? http://www.ip-global.org/archiv/2009...ng-europe.html A solid and good read. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

02-25-09, 08:09 AM	#2
Respenus Ace of the Deep Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,169 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Pending the discussion the the democratic deficit of Europe which we usually find ourselves when talking about the EU and its problems, the article Skybird posted can be quoted as the truth. Even though we have seen extreme developments on the field of CFSP and ESDP, which is unprecedented in the "EU"'s 50+ year old span, we are still but a number a bickering nations, each one looking after its own agenda and only the big players are usually ready to make some small concessions, yet then (usually) the Poles and the Czechs come flying in, ruining the hard laid work done by the EU institutions. Frankly, I hope for a day when there will be one representative, one phone number and frankly Skybird, what ever you say about the EU, the article's author seemed willing to expect the EU as a world player, as long as we get our act together. Right now, we can only wait and see which cours the EU will take and let's hope it will be the favourable one. __________________

02-26-09, 03:47 AM	#5
Respenus Ace of the Deep Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,169 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	You know, as strange as this might sound, I was always in favour of direct EU citizen action. That is why I am so excited about the Lisbon, as it will enable ordinary citizens like you and me and stand up and propose what we see should be the right course for the EU and Europe in general. Sure, it is only a recommendation to the EU Parliament and the Council of the EU, yet still. There was already something similar done about the EP moving between Brussels and Strasbourg, yet at the time it was not yet institutionalised. __________________

02-26-09, 07:26 AM	#6
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,614 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	The dictate of Lisbon will also allow national governments to take every proposal they can't get through parliaments at home to the EU commission, having them turning it into an official EU commission demand of any of the various forms available - that the national parliamnets then have to turn into valid laws and must wave through parlimant without resistance. It also allows the commission to govern and rule by a policy of emergcny decrees - without "emergency" being defined anywhere, but such decrees overruling the Eu parliament anyway. This dicate of isbon is not a strengthening of checks and balances, demcoratic legitimiation, and demcoracy in general. It is to establish a governing elite that must not undergo such legitimation by the european people, and can rule as a reincrantion of the former eastern block "polit bureaus" - who were tyrannies indeed, nevertheless called themselves democratic. Just the way of manipulation, intimidation, pressing for agreement to Lisbon, and avoiding that the people get asked - just this alone shows where the train is heading. this is indeed about stronger governing of europe. At the price of a silent dismantling of democracy. Pah. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.