Does the US not have a supersonic SSM?

Pillar · 10-02-08, 08:22 PM

I've never heard of anything in the US inventory by way of a supersonic anti-ship surface to surface missile. The Indian navy has some SSMs which are said to do supersonic maneuvers on the last phase of their attack. Are American ships presently limited to subsonic anti-ship missiles?

ekempey · 10-02-08, 09:23 PM

The only thing I know that they have is the SM2. From Wikipedia:
"The Standard can also be used against ships, either at line-of-sight range using its semi-active homing mode, or over the horizon using inertial guidance and terminal infrared homing."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-66_Standard

Molon Labe · 10-02-08, 09:26 PM

SeaSparrow has ASUW capability as well, and my guess would be that NLOS/Netfires is supersonic for at least part of its flight; but, yes, we don't have any dedicated surface launched supersonic antiship missiles.

Pillar · 10-03-08, 11:01 AM

Unbelievable! 62kg of blast fragmentation is not trivial but I'm really quite surprised that India has a more capable surface-to-surface attack capability than the USN's latest and greatest.

Molon Labe · 10-03-08, 11:43 AM

The USN hasn't deployed a new antiship SSM since 1984. India is developing a brand new one right now. So yeah, they're ahead right now. We'll have the Harpoon Block III in 2011 if all goes as planned, which will certainly have updated guidance capabilities for improved flexibility and lethality (and hopefully will combine a backup sensor with the radar for terminal homing--not something that's been announced as of today, but something they'll probably need in light of the incident with the Saar 5 vs. C-802).

Speed isn't all there is to capability though. Subsonic seaskimmers have proven quite effective, in conflicts from 1967 to 2006 (and a subsonic non-seaskimming SS-N-9 in 2008). I'm only aware of one instance where an ASCM was shot down (and it wasn't a seaskimmer) which is the key vunlerablility of a slower-moving missile. Supersonic weapons are about as vunlerable to soft kills, which has so far been the most successful defense.

MBot · 10-03-08, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

Supersonic weapons are about as vunlerable to soft kills, which has so far been the most successful defense.

True, but supersonic missiles also reduce the time available to deploy counter measures in the first place.

10-20-08, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

Saar 5 vs. C-802).

Religious mumbojumbo. Miracles, after miracles. That would have been a great article, without all that manipulative bs.
They were lucky, yes. Miracles, no.

Pillar · 10-03-08, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ekempey

The only thing I know that they have is the SM2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

SeaSparrow has ASUW capability as well, and my guess would be that NLOS/Netfires is supersonic for at least part of its flight; but, yes, we don't have any dedicated surface launched supersonic antiship missiles.

"Operational range 40 to 90 nautical miles" (from the Wiki)

Yeah this is what I was looking for. Thanks.

Molon Labe · 10-03-08, 08:13 PM

SM-2 and SeaSparrow are SARH missiles, so their range is limited by the horizon. 40-90nm is against aircraft, not ships.

Pillar · 10-03-08, 08:24 PM

Yeah I was just thinking about the motor running out and a heck of a lot of that range being glide... so no, this isn't a good anti-ship missile. The motor burn range and then a little bit of cruise after that probably aren't far at all. The radar problem might be solved by a helicopter - ? I'm not sure they have the capability to do third party guidance for missiles like that. At glide-phase ranges they probably wouldn't be harder to shoot down than a harpoon, maybe easier, in fact.

10-02-08, 08:22 PM	#1
Pillar Electrician's Mate Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 138 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Does the US not have a supersonic SSM? I've never heard of anything in the US inventory by way of a supersonic anti-ship surface to surface missile. The Indian navy has some SSMs which are said to do supersonic maneuvers on the last phase of their attack. Are American ships presently limited to subsonic anti-ship missiles?

10-02-08, 09:26 PM	#3
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	SeaSparrow has ASUW capability as well, and my guess would be that NLOS/Netfires is supersonic for at least part of its flight; but, yes, we don't have any dedicated surface launched supersonic antiship missiles. __________________

10-03-08, 11:43 AM	#5
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	The USN hasn't deployed a new antiship SSM since 1984. India is developing a brand new one right now. So yeah, they're ahead right now. We'll have the Harpoon Block III in 2011 if all goes as planned, which will certainly have updated guidance capabilities for improved flexibility and lethality (and hopefully will combine a backup sensor with the radar for terminal homing--not something that's been announced as of today, but something they'll probably need in light of the incident with the Saar 5 vs. C-802). Speed isn't all there is to capability though. Subsonic seaskimmers have proven quite effective, in conflicts from 1967 to 2006 (and a subsonic non-seaskimming SS-N-9 in 2008). I'm only aware of one instance where an ASCM was shot down (and it wasn't a seaskimmer) which is the key vunlerablility of a slower-moving missile. Supersonic weapons are about as vunlerable to soft kills, which has so far been the most successful defense. __________________

10-03-08, 08:13 PM	#9
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	SM-2 and SeaSparrow are SARH missiles, so their range is limited by the horizon. 40-90nm is against aircraft, not ships. __________________

10-02-08, 09:23 PM	#2
ekempey Gunner Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 95 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	The only thing I know that they have is the SM2. From Wikipedia: "The Standard can also be used against ships, either at line-of-sight range using its semi-active homing mode, or over the horizon using inertial guidance and terminal infrared homing." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-66_Standard

10-03-08, 11:01 AM	#4
Pillar Electrician's Mate Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 138 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Unbelievable! 62kg of blast fragmentation is not trivial but I'm really quite surprised that India has a more capable surface-to-surface attack capability than the USN's latest and greatest.

10-03-08, 08:24 PM	#10
Pillar Electrician's Mate Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 138 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Yeah I was just thinking about the motor running out and a heck of a lot of that range being glide... so no, this isn't a good anti-ship missile. The motor burn range and then a little bit of cruise after that probably aren't far at all. The radar problem might be solved by a helicopter - ? I'm not sure they have the capability to do third party guidance for missiles like that. At glide-phase ranges they probably wouldn't be harder to shoot down than a harpoon, maybe easier, in fact.