If I were Sonalyst I would make a DW expansion

[Castout]

You know DW is a game without competition now and in the near future.

Despite its rather obsolete graphics(yet sufficient) it is a FANTASTIC game of naval warfare with a strong technical simulation pull.

It's been 4 years and I still have it on my computer and am still playing it from time to time.

Now I can't help feeling that a couple more playable platforms plus updated 3D models for some of the AI only platforms will make this game really really much more tempting.

For example adding the Duke FF which is the British OHP equivalent, the Russian OHP equivalent which I think is the Krivak FF and more diesel subs both allies and red like the Australian Collins class, The German Type 212(Italian, German, etc) and the Russian new Lada class SSK plus the Nimrod maritime reconnaisance and ASW patrol aircraft, the Tu-95 bear maritime patrol and ASW plane. Can you just imagine the appeal?
A more ambitious expansion perhpas could include the Oscar II and Typhon and the Ohio, Trafalgar as playable complete with launchable nuclear ballistic missiles.
I'm sick of stupid dumb games that offers nothing but wowing graphics. DW like its predecessor SC is one of the very few smarter game out there.

I really can't see why this game is commercially failing. Perhaps an expansion which bring more playable platforms would make this game much more appealing.

I know about Reinforce alert mod or the Alfa Tau mod which add numerous playable platforms using preexisting interface but it's just not the same.

I'm sorry if this thread bother you as it seems that there have been many other similar threads asking/hoping for a DW expansion but I need to get this off my chest. And I know the income from PC gaming may not be sufficiently large to entice Sonalyst to commit its resources away from government project but this game rocks.

I would buy DW+expansion even if it costs me US$50.00. Just get it as bug free as possible. And as realistically as possible. I would even buy it at US$100.00 like SB Pro PE but get it done right.

Now I feel somewhat better having gotten this off my chest.

[Frame57]

Simulation "games" have always performed less in sales than your typical computer game. They take time to learn for one. At least we are doing better than the train simulator that is out there.

[Molon Labe]

FWIW, I would easily pay $100-plus for a simulation that was complete when it ships. I don't even care what genre--naval, flight, tank, tactical, operational, strategic--whatever! All features implemented, all major bugs squashed (I'm OK with it needing a patch or two), stable, and with a dynamic campaign engine. The closest thing I can think of to that standard is F4AF, but that's a sim engine that's something like 10 years old!

I really am at a loss to understand how the sim market failed so badly. The PC had so much potential and it's been wasted on FPSs.

Edit: OK, maybe not so much tank sims, gotta stay closer to the naval side of things

[Dr.Sid]

Hm .. so I should rethink making my sim free ? :rotfl:
Just kidding ..

[Werewolf]

What is the "reinforce alert" addon????? :hmm:

[OneShot]

An illegal Addon with some "new" playable units ... tho not truly new as in the sense with all new interfaces and whatnot ... just the old stuff with a new 3d model and new db entries and as far as I understand one or two modified interfaces.

[Werewolf]

@Oneshot

Ah I see.......so being an "illegal" addon I reckon that noone knows where to find it then

[GrayOwl]

Originally Posted by OneShot

An illegal Addon with some "new" playable units ... tho not truly new as in the sense with all new interfaces and whatnot ... just the old stuff with a new 3d model and new db entries and as far as I understand one or two modified interfaces.

However, in original game from SCS - it is impossible to play. The weapon - does not fly there where it is sent by the player, all weapon practically too is identical - have the same sensor controls.
The aircraft does not fly and falls in water.
Any platform has no normal physics. Etc etc…

How it can have a name “Simulator” - if you will put in a database for the weapon his normal parameters - it ceases to work!

SCS really have sold to us not game and its Beta-version.
Unless they did not know what the game consists of one only of bugs?

In addition –Reinforce Alert- have removed many these "nursery of the bug" and as the silly algorithm of the original doctrines is completely altered.

And besides - is added hundreds AI of units (similarity SCX-2 mod)

[Apocal]

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

I really am at a loss to understand how the sim market failed so badly. The PC had so much potential and it's been wasted on FPSs.

I have two theories on that:

A) There was no failure per se. Sims as a genre simply failed to grow in comparison to FPS and RTS games. As those games became more popular, they raised the bar in terms of capital required to produce a marketable, profitable game so sims by and large were pushed out of the market.

B) Alternatively, the sim genre shot it's collective foot off by increasing realism and decreasing accessibility to the games. Essentially, the only people who could expect to be proficient at the game were those who'd played the previous iteration or invested dozens of hours learning. Most people are not going to stick with a game that requires hours of study. And the era of electronic manuals didn't help either.

Intertwined in all this is the fact that many FPS and RTS games legitimately did better at what they set out to do. I think we can all think of a couple of supposedly world-beater sims that fell flat on their face in implementation *cough* WW2OL *cough*.

Seriously, I think that the fact that WW2OL is still around is more a testament to the popularity of WW2 movies after "Saving Private Ryan" than any of it's own entertainment merits.

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by Apocal

B) Alternatively, the sim genre shot it's collective foot off by increasing realism and decreasing accessibility to the games. Essentially, the only people who could expect to be proficient at the game were those who'd played the previous iteration or invested dozens of hours learning.

Um, that's what makes a sim a sim.

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

Um, that's what makes a sim a sim.

The options open to us are 2 : embrace the freeware/opensource development that frees us from economic/demographic constraints (look at the success of Orbiter, a real simulator not a game), even ComSubSim looks very promising.
Or else prepare to pay hundreds of $ for a simulation on a per episode basis as will be the case for fighter ops/steel beasts pro etc...

[Apocal]

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

Um, that's what makes a sim a sim.

Go back and play some sims of the mid-90s and earlier. Even with their "realism" I could pick them up and play within an afternoon. I'd be proficient within two or three days. Contrast to now. The bar for sims was raised, but not for the better as far as the bottom line was concerned.

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by Castout

...............

I'm sorry if this thread bother you as it seems that there have been many other similar threads asking/hoping for a DW expansion but I need to get this off my chest. And I know the income from PC gaming may not be sufficiently large to entice Sonalyst to commit its resources away from government project but this game rocks.

.................

Ditto. I agree with much of what your wrote here Castout. I've written a couple of threads expressing the same type of frustrations. DW is a truly great game, and a long time resident on my hard drive since it's been released. I still play it very frequently. I see a major blow to modern naval simming if Sonalysts abandons commercial gaming projects. I don't see anybody else sufficiently filling the void.

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

I really am at a loss to understand how the sim market failed so badly. The PC had so much potential and it's been wasted on FPSs.

In regards to FPS's, I don't know how people haven't gotten sick of those games.

[FIREWALL]

Just curious.

Did Sonalyst promise any future upgrades or expansions when it first released DW or afterwards ?

Please correct me if I'm wrong but IIRC they pumped out this game when goverment contracts were a little on the slim side.

Now that their back at work .... well you know the answer to that.

[MBot]

What is interesting is that Sub Command did actualy quite well. I think someone from Sonalysts said once that EA as a puplisher helped SC quite a bit to penetrate the marked and sell good. For DW they lacked such a strong publisher. I bet with a big name behind it, perhaps even the revival of the Jane's brand, a modern naval sim would do ok even today. The problem is just that no big publisher will go for it. Not because it wont make profit, but because they can make more profit with more mainstream game (which is also understandable).

Personaly I would gladly pay big $ for DW addon. Altough now I would actualy lean more to a successor for DW. The 688(i) is in dire need for a remake, it still has the station graphics from Sub Command and the same functionality as the old 688(I) H/K.

A "Jane's 688(I) Hunter/Killer II", now that would be my dream