Fire in the hole! Now the Pakis are taking shots at US helos

[Onkel Neal]

Pakistani and American Troops Exchange Fire


Time to get closer to India.

[Dowly]

Wasnt the U.S. the one to go over to Pakistan with Special Forces and later with choppers?

I mean, you wouldnt want russia to have their Spetznaz hunting terrorists on your backyard without permission right?

[Platapus]

Lemme get this straight

Pakistani security forces were manning a security check point within Pakistan

"Pakistani military checkpoint near Tanai district in Khost Province."

Nato/US claims that its helicopters were 1 mile inside Afghanistan air space

"American and NATO officials said that the two helicopters were flying about one mile inside Afghan air space

This means that the Pakistani's were shooting at a helicopter that was more than a mile away (depending on the altitude) assuming that the Pakistani checkpoint was exactly on the border? Almost 1800 meters? That is some shooting with small arms.

Me thinks there is more to this story.......

[Dowly]

If this is the same incident, the Finnish told this about a week ago. Also, the US Special forcers intrusion was told over 2 or so weeks ago. Hard to say what is true, but if US has gone to Pakistani territory, even if to hunt Al-qaida, I think US deserves to get slapped to it's hands.

Be it war on terrorism all they want, but if you want to be the good guys, follow the rules and respect other countries. If you dont, you just make yourselves look as bad as the terrorists.

Just my 2 cents, dont shoot me.

[Letum]

Whats with the ethnic slurs?
Not what I usually expect from you Neal.

*edit* Perhaps it doesn't have all the connotations in the US that it does here, but all the same...

[Sea Demon]

Yikes. So now there's bad blood with Pakistan?

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Letum

Whats with the ethnic slurs?
Not what I usually expect from you Neal.

*edit* Perhaps it doesn't have all the connotations in the US that it does here, but all the same...

Huh? what did I say?

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Dowly

If this is the same incident, the Finnish told this about a week ago. Also, the US Special forcers intrusion was told over 2 or so weeks ago. Hard to say what is true, but if US has gone to Pakistani territory, even if to hunt Al-qaida, I think US deserves to get slapped to it's hands.

Be it war on terrorism all they want, but if you want to be the good guys, follow the rules and respect other countries. If you dont, you just make yourselves look as bad as the terrorists.

Just my 2 cents, dont shoot me.

Yeah, I suppose you're right. Ok, I agree they can fire off random shots at our aircraft as long as Special Forces get those terrorists hiding in their country.

[bookworm_020]

Their military units are reffered to as Pak uints in this article

http://news.smh.com.au/world/pakista...0926-4o8o.html

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Lemme get this straight

Pakistani security forces were manning a security check point within Pakistan

"Pakistani military checkpoint near Tanai district in Khost Province."

Nato/US claims that its helicopters were 1 mile inside Afghanistan air space

"American and NATO officials said that the two helicopters were flying about one mile inside Afghan air space

This means that the Pakistani's were shooting at a helicopter that was more than a mile away (depending on the altitude) assuming that the Pakistani checkpoint was exactly on the border? Almost 1800 meters? That is some shooting with small arms.

Me thinks there is more to this story.......

I think so as well. Even light machine guns rarely have an effective range that long.

I think this was a case of some troops overreacting to a percieved challenge.

Perhaps the Pakistani troops were taking pot-shots at the choppers to vent some anti-american sentiment. Or perhaps the U.S. troops saw flares, or tracers, or whatever and decided to shoot first and ask questions later.

Stuff like that happens. It should be expected when young men are filled with national and military pride, given a gun, and pointed in a general direction. Troops are always looking for a threat or a fight. That's what they're supposed to do. It just has unforseen consequences sometimes.


The U.S. and Pakistan are in a very difficult position right now, but I don't think this little skirmish will escelate into war for the time being. Both countries have too much to lose. I expect the U.S. will continue to probe Pakistan searching for evidence that they are harbouring terrorists, and Pakistan will attempt to prevent such probes, either because they are hiding terrorists or because they fear heavy-handed U.S. military intervention in their domestic affairs. As such, I don't see much progress ever being made.

What a quandry. I guess we'll see how it plays out.

[Skybird]

The evidence they already have, Lance, it is obvious. It walks around and in and out of Afghanistan and grins at the americans when taking shelter in Pakistan. It's now about killing that walking around evidence inside Pakistan and not allow Pakistani troops to protect them. If they move out of the way, good, and if they position themselves in the way, shoot right through them at the taleban behind them.

as long as Pakistan is dealt with like in the past seven years, there is no real chance to ever decide afghanistan. It will turn into the Al-Quaeda announced twenty years of war indeed. I do not know why the american economy should be expected to pay that long for a war. Let those pay for it who not only created but still hiddenly protect the Taleban: Pakistan. I remind of Pakistan's highly questionable role - to put it politely - in international nuclear proliferation as well. For me, Pakistan is more dangerous than Iran and North Korea. It plays the tricks of North Korea, it is as islamic as Iran, and tolerant of Islamic terror if only it is not targetted itself - but different to iran, it already possesses nuclear weapons.

High time to show them the red line which to cross will be discouraging costly for them. Forget Iraq. don't think you can solve Afghanistan without solving pakistan first. Pakistan should become top priority. To get India and China into the boat, would be of tremendous help. Both are not happy for Pakistan's destabilizing role in the region. Getting India maybe is possible, China, of course, is extremely difficult: they will prefer to see America struggling around with a problem that damages America continously.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by Skybird

The evidence they already have, Lance, it is obvious. It walks around and in and out of Afghanistan and grins at the americans when taking shelter in Pakistan. It's now about killing that walking around evidence inside Pakistan and not allow Pakistani troops to protect them. If they move out of the way, good, and if they position themselves in the way, shoot right through them at the taleban behind them.

as long as Pakistan is dealt with like in the past seven years, there is no real chance to ever decide afghanistan. It will turn into the Al-Quaeda announced twenty years of war indeed. I do not know why the american economy should be expected to pay that long for a war. Let those pay for it who not only created but still hiddenly protect the Taleban: Pakistan. I remind of Pakistan's highly questionable role - to put it politely - in international nuclear proliferation as well. For me, Pakistan is more dangerous than Iran and North Korea. It plays the tricks of North Korea, it is as islamic as Iran, and tolerant of Islamic terror if only it is not targetted itself - but different to iran, it already possesses nuclear weapons.

High time to show them the red line which to cross will be discouraging costly for them. Forget Iraq. don't think you can solve Afghanistan without solving pakistan first. Pakistan should become top priority. To get India and China into the boat, would be of tremendous help. Both are not happy for Pakistan's destabilizing role in the region. Getting India maybe is possible, China, of course, is extremely difficult: they will prefer to see America struggling around with a problem that damages America continously.

You act like we disagree about this stuff. I just wanted to be as objective as possible. But, should we choose to "shoot through them" as you say, would Germany help? What about the other European countries?
These wars are bankrupting us almost as much as our own domestic policy is. We can't do all this stuff by ourselves.

(joking now ) It's high time you Germans got off your a$$es and started building some "wonderweapons" for the war on terror. God knows we could use them! '
But this time, make sure they arrive in a timely fashion!