[REQ] Realistic "Ping" (not movie ping)

Letum · 09-16-08, 03:38 PM

I have been reading up a bit about ASDIC.

It seams that almost all ADSIC was between 16khz and 24khz. Almost never lower
than 4Khz.

Now, thats very, very high frequency. Humans can't hear above 20khz, most people
can't hear much above 16khz. (you can (or can't!) hear a sample at 16khz HERE)

This means that the "ping" sound you hear in the game is bunkum!
It's just not like that at all unless you have equipment to lower the frequency.

That does not mean that you can not hear the high-pitched ping at all in a sub, but
what ever it sounds like, it wont be a "Ping".

Does anyone have any clue what ASDIC would sound like from inside a sub if
it could be heard at all?
I would guess that the ping would cause some lower frequency sounds as well.

Would anyone like to have a go at making a truly realistic ping?

So far the only lead I have is from Steve who says he read the sound was
like:"gravel being thrown against the hull".

Sailor Steve · 09-16-08, 08:16 PM

In that same thread didn't someone who had served on a sub say it sounded like a 'click'?

Why can't I find that thread now? It was just today.

Reece · 09-16-08, 08:21 PM

Well in some of the books I've read the U-boat Crew describes asdic as "pebbles dropping on hull",

but that don't sound good! Give me the movie stuff anyday!

Philipp_Thomsen · 09-16-08, 09:22 PM

Good lord... why did I read this?

Repeat: do not start in the top third of the chart.

I've gone STRAIGHT to that ping on the top right corner, the louder one...

Jeez... My ears are not functioning properly, and at the time it was almost painful... a weird feeling.

But I did hear it...

Philipp_Thomsen · 09-16-08, 09:31 PM

By the way... If having a real ping on the game means listening contantly to that disturbing sound, capable of hurting your ears, than no thanks!

richardphat · 09-16-08, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philipp_Thomsen

By the way... If having a real ping on the game means listening contantly to that disturbing sound, capable of hurting your ears, than no thanks!

Agree!

ridgewayranger · 09-19-08, 12:03 PM

Hi All,
The 'Ping' beloved by movie makers is the sound which the operator hears and also comes out of the speakers. Because most normal hearing cannot detect those frequencies the incoming sound is mixed with another frequency 1k/c lower or higher than that transmitted, this results in a 1 k/c note still bearing all the characteristics of the original, pitch, doppler etc. The process is known as heterodyning. The sound heard in the submarine when the beam struck the hull was sort of a click/squeak. The reducing interval between these indicated they were in contact and of course the decreasing range, giving a good skipper some idea when to take avoiding action. Because of this Hunter/Killer groups devised a creeping attack whereby one ship held contact but used constant transmission interval while the others formed a line and virtually carpet bombed the target, hence their high rate of success.
RR

caspofungin · 09-19-08, 12:47 PM

thx for the definitive answer.

also, i think british ww2 asdics operated at 14khz.

LiveGoat · 09-19-08, 01:03 PM

I remember in Silent Hunter I when the Japanese pinged you it had a trilling sound like the bell on a kids bicycle. I wonder if the "trill" is what they mean by a gravel sound? My buddy who was on a navy supply ship in the 90's said his ship was pinged by sub at close range and it knocked him out of his bunk! It's kind of a letdown though to find that the pings are not authentic.

vickers03 · 09-19-08, 01:27 PM

what about this one:
http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/m...boa/asdic.aspx

btw, i read in a book from a german ww2 sonar man that
they picked up the asdic sounds first in the hydrophone,
then after some time it was heard in the whole boat.
he also described the sound as a high-pitched trilling
(in the hydrophone).

wdq4587 · 09-22-08, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vickers03

btw, i read in a book from a german ww2 sonar man that
they picked up the asdic sounds first in the hydrophone,

This discussion let me know why ping is not a 3D sound in SH3. (But no sound volume change based on distance is really sucks). And I guess in stock SH3 game you can not hear ping from hydrophone. (What you heared ping is just as in Command Room)

Myxale · 09-19-08, 01:29 PM

We need to keep in mid that the frequencies traveling tru the plancton, salt and thermal layers and there is of cause the pressure-hull this always makes the ping sound a bit off.

I'd say lets stick to the "pepples on a hull" and movie version. The real ping frequencis will damage you ears! :hmm:

Letum · 09-21-08, 05:18 AM

Well, I suppose the second best solution is just to remove the ping altogether.

I can't listen to it now that i know its fake.

geosub1978 · 09-22-08, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ridgewayranger

Hi All,
The 'Ping' beloved by movie makers is the sound which the operator hears and also comes out of the speakers. Because most normal hearing cannot detect those frequencies the incoming sound is mixed with another frequency 1k/c lower or higher than that transmitted, this results in a 1 k/c note still bearing all the characteristics of the original, pitch, doppler etc. The process is known as heterodyning. The sound heard in the submarine when the beam struck the hull was sort of a click/squeak. The reducing interval between these indicated they were in contact and of course the decreasing range, giving a good skipper some idea when to take avoiding action. Because of this Hunter/Killer groups devised a creeping attack whereby one ship held contact but used constant transmission interval while the others formed a line and virtually carpet bombed the target, hence their high rate of success.
RR

Exactly. What someone hears in the submarine is not the carrier frequency (it is the information-HF) but the transient frequency (which brings the wave to the target and back-LF). The compilation is called modulation. Also the doppler (if the submarine shows movement along the bearing) increases or decreases the LF.
Modern sonars, when they are operated like WW2 era, sound like a hammer hit agaist a steel block BUT NOT as a hit against the pressure hall. If the rest water mass is quiet and the contact approaches, then it sounds very clear and is less absorped and vice versa. Some times, it seems to me like a huge bubble colapsing in sound!

The alternation of the interval is an indication but not a certain one.

Task Force · 09-22-08, 01:50 PM

So is it possiable to even get the real pinging noises.

we dont even have a recording.

09-16-08, 03:38 PM	#1
Letum Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: York - UK Posts: 6,079 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	[REQ] Realistic "Ping" (not movie ping) I have been reading up a bit about ASDIC. It seams that almost all ADSIC was between 16khz and 24khz. Almost never lower than 4Khz. Now, thats very, very high frequency. Humans can't hear above 20khz, most people can't hear much above 16khz. (you can (or can't!) hear a sample at 16khz HERE) This means that the "ping" sound you hear in the game is bunkum! It's just not like that at all unless you have equipment to lower the frequency. That does not mean that you can not hear the high-pitched ping at all in a sub, but what ever it sounds like, it wont be a "Ping". Does anyone have any clue what ASDIC would sound like from inside a sub if it could be heard at all? I would guess that the ping would cause some lower frequency sounds as well. Would anyone like to have a go at making a truly realistic ping? So far the only lead I have is from Steve who says he read the sound was like:"gravel being thrown against the hull". __________________

09-16-08, 08:16 PM	#2
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	In that same thread didn't someone who had served on a sub say it sounded like a 'click'? Why can't I find that thread now? It was just today. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

09-16-08, 08:21 PM	#3
Reece CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Down Under Posts: 34,724 Downloads: 171 Uploads: 0	Well in some of the books I've read the U-boat Crew describes asdic as "pebbles dropping on hull", but that don't sound good! Give me the movie stuff anyday! __________________ *Sub captains go down with their ship!*

09-16-08, 09:22 PM	#4
Philipp_Thomsen Old Gang Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Drunk at the whorehouse Posts: 2,278 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	Good lord... why did I read this? Repeat: do not start in the top third of the chart. I've gone STRAIGHT to that ping on the top right corner, the louder one... Jeez... My ears are not functioning properly, and at the time it was almost painful... a weird feeling. But I did hear it... __________________ To each his own

09-16-08, 09:31 PM	#5
Philipp_Thomsen Old Gang Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Drunk at the whorehouse Posts: 2,278 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	By the way... If having a real ping on the game means listening contantly to that disturbing sound, capable of hurting your ears, than no thanks! __________________ To each his own

09-19-08, 12:03 PM	#7
ridgewayranger Frogman Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ipswich, England Posts: 302 Downloads: 281 Uploads: 0	Re Movie Ping Hi All, The 'Ping' beloved by movie makers is the sound which the operator hears and also comes out of the speakers. Because most normal hearing cannot detect those frequencies the incoming sound is mixed with another frequency 1k/c lower or higher than that transmitted, this results in a 1 k/c note still bearing all the characteristics of the original, pitch, doppler etc. The process is known as heterodyning. The sound heard in the submarine when the beam struck the hull was sort of a click/squeak. The reducing interval between these indicated they were in contact and of course the decreasing range, giving a good skipper some idea when to take avoiding action. Because of this Hunter/Killer groups devised a creeping attack whereby one ship held contact but used constant transmission interval while the others formed a line and virtually carpet bombed the target, hence their high rate of success. RR

09-19-08, 12:47 PM	#8
caspofungin Commander Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 459 Downloads: 41 Uploads: 0	thx for the definitive answer. also, i think british ww2 asdics operated at 14khz.

09-19-08, 01:03 PM	#9
LiveGoat XO Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 408 Downloads: 439 Uploads: 0	I remember in Silent Hunter I when the Japanese pinged you it had a trilling sound like the bell on a kids bicycle. I wonder if the "trill" is what they mean by a gravel sound? My buddy who was on a navy supply ship in the 90's said his ship was pinged by sub at close range and it knocked him out of his bunk! It's kind of a letdown though to find that the pings are not authentic.

09-19-08, 01:27 PM	#10
vickers03 Pooped from posting Join Date: May 2007 Location: germany Posts: 999 Downloads: 712 Uploads: 37	what about this one: http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/m...boa/asdic.aspx btw, i read in a book from a german ww2 sonar man that they picked up the asdic sounds first in the hydrophone, then after some time it was heard in the whole boat. he also described the sound as a high-pitched trilling (in the hydrophone).

09-19-08, 01:29 PM	#12
Myxale Admiral Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: PQ AN 25 Posts: 2,178 Downloads: 70 Uploads: 0	We need to keep in mid that the frequencies traveling tru the plancton, salt and thermal layers and there is of cause the pressure-hull this always makes the ping sound a bit off. I'd say lets stick to the "pepples on a hull" and movie version. The real ping frequencis will damage you ears! :hmm: __________________ SH3+GWX SH5+WoS Still Sailing....still Deep

09-21-08, 05:18 AM	#13
Letum Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: York - UK Posts: 6,079 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Well, I suppose the second best solution is just to remove the ping altogether. I can't listen to it now that i know its fake. __________________

09-22-08, 01:50 PM	#15
Task Force Rear Admiral Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: SPACE!!!! Posts: 10,142 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	So is it possiable to even get the real pinging noises. we dont even have a recording. __________________ Task Force industries "Taking control of the world, one mind at a time"