Most important Ironclad/Battleship Engagements

[Raptor1]

I'm doing a school project on the Ironclad and the Battleship, I was wondering what are the 5 most important engagements between Ironclads/Battleships in history

I was thinking:

1. Hampton Roads (First Battle between Ironclads)
2. Lissa (First Ironclad Fleet Battle)
3. Tsushima (Most decisive Battleship engagement)
4. Jutland (Largest Battleship Engagement)
5. The attack on Force Z (While technically not an engagement between Battleships, it was still one of the most important points in the death of the Battleship)

What do you think?

[Ishmael]

Don't forget the last one. The Battle of Surigao Straits. I met a chief gunner's mate who was Mount 51 captain of the forward 14-inch turret aboard USS California(BB-44) from Pearl to V-J day and participated in it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...Surigao_Strait

[Raptor1]

How could I forget about that one

I'll just add it in as #6

[AntEater]

Funny, I think the strangest thing about Ironclads/Battleships is how rarely they were used. The list you gave is pretty much all engagements:
Out of my head:
- Hampton Roads 1861
- Huascar vs the rest of the world 1875 (I think)
- Port Arthur/Yellow Sea/Tsushima 1904/05
- Doggerbank/Skagerrak/Moon Sound and a few inconclusive and almost-battles
- Renown vs Scharnhorst/Gneisenau 1940
- Scharnhorst/Gneisenau vs various Battleships on their north atlantic raid (almost battles)
- Punta Stilo 1940
- Denmark Straits/Final Battle of Bismarck
- Guadalcanal 14th November 1942
- "Battle of the Blips" Attu 1943 (only one side shot at nothing, but Battleships did shoot a lot there)
- Battle of North Cape
- Surigao Straights

Maybe I forgot one or two, but those were basically ALL engagements by first class steam driven armoured warships ever.
Strange, if you consider that the number of sailing ship engagements was much higher in the various wars of the 18th century allone.
Maybe those ships were just too expensive.

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by AntEater

Maybe those ships were just too expensive.

Bingo. They were the centerpiece of naval strategy, but everybody realized that you can't lose them. Because of their price tag and the lead time of building the next one.

PD

[Raptor1]

Originally Posted by AntEater

Funny, I think the strangest thing about Ironclads/Battleships is how rarely they were used.

That's why i'm doing this on them rather then on Ships of the Line or something, the list would be endless

I heard somewhere that Dreadnoughts were considered so important in WWI that they were kept close to home, so they barely saw any fighting, which was what they were designed to do

I believe the only decisive engagements between 1st class Steam Warships were the Battle of Tsushima and the Battle of Lissa (But then, the Austrian fleet rammed the Italian ships, So this doesn't really count)

BTW The Huascar thing was in 1879

[kurtz]

Originally Posted by Raptor1

I heard somewhere that Dreadnoughts were considered so important in WWI that they were kept close to home, so they barely saw any fighting, which was what they were designed to do

BTW The Huascar thing was in 1879

They were important for the threat, if security was better we could have built them out of waterproof card and they'd have done the same job.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Ishmael

I met a chief gunner's mate who was Mount 51 captain of the forward 14-inch turret aboard USS California(BB-44) from Pearl to V-J day and participated in it.

Cool, though I'm confused. "Mount 51" describes the #1 5" mount on any ship. The forward turret on an American battleship is just Turret #1.

[bookworm_020]

If you want an intresting gun battle, try this one

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_..._cruiser_Stier

http://www.usmm.org/hopkins.html

[Raptor1]

Originally Posted by bookworm_020

If you want an intresting gun battle, try this one

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_..._cruiser_Stier

http://www.usmm.org/hopkins.html

Thanks, But that's not a Battleship engagement (Though it is funny )

I'll make sure to include the point on Battleships use as "Fleets in Being", I don't like the idea much but that's unfortunatly thats what they were used for, the Tirpitz is a really good example as her mere presence (however useless) in the North Atlantic forced the Royal Navy to use Battleships as convoy escorts

I think the main thing about BBs is not "Our Battleships makes them scared" but rather "Their Battleships makes us scared", on both sides...

I agree with CaptHawkeye that during WWII the Battleship did have it's place, But after that they just turned almost completely useless because of Guided Missiles and Air Power (Except as shore-bombardement platforms)

[Sailor Steve]

The funny thing about Hampton Roads was that it was neither the biggest nor the most decisive battle of the American Civil War, but it was the first conflict between ironclad ships, and the whole world was curious about the outcome.

I think your list is spot on, if you have to have only five.

As for your observation on the value of battleships; i.e. not losing them being more important that actually using them, I've said something similar myself. I like to liken destroyers to soldiers - the form groups and they fight. Cruisers are perfect for their primary mission - as scouts, and as mighty warriors if need be. But battleships? Battleships are like the ancient champions - Achilles and Hector, for example. They can intimidate all the soldiers and warriors in the world, but they really only exist to fight each other, and almost certainly one of them will die, ending in glory perhaps, but dying just the same; to be remembered forever, but still just as dead.

It just occured to me: does that make the airplane like a plague of wasps, sent by the gods to torment the mightiest warriors? Too much metaphor; I have to go to bed.

[kurtz]

Originally Posted by Raptor1

I'll make sure to include the point on Battleships use as "Fleets in Being", I don't like the idea much but that's unfortunatly thats what they were used for, the Tirpitz is a really good example as her mere presence (however useless) in the North Atlantic forced the Royal Navy to use Battleships as convoy escorts

Did you mean the Bismarck? I don't think the Tirpitz left the Baltic.

And from another post don't forget the Glorious? in the norway campaign, carriers can come off v. badly if BBs get the drop on them

[TheSatyr]

You also have the two naval engagements during the Spanish-American War,but I'm not sure if any of the ships involved would be classified as battleships. Ah well,you could always look it up.

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by TheSatyr

You also have the two naval engagements during the Spanish-American War,but I'm not sure if any of the ships involved would be classified as battleships. Ah well,you could always look it up.

Oh yeah, when the Great White Fleet attacked the Spanish fleet at Manila. Admiral Dewey?

Is there a big difference from Ironclad to Dreadnought? I thought the latter was just a even bigger ship? If they were so valuable, did they see much engagement at all?