Bayonets

Dronston · 04-06-08, 06:31 AM

About 15 years ago my Grandmother gave me two bayonets that had belonged to my Grandfather. The story was that he had been part of Dutch resistance and these bayonets were captured from the Germans, which can't be the whole story 'cause one of them is British. (nobody is left alive to ask

) They have been in my fathers attic and I recently got them back.

So I tried to identify them but am not sure. Does anyone here know for sure?
http://www.worldbayonets.com/Bayonet...ion_guide.html

The one on the bottom is German and seems to be a M1884/98 III (http://www.worldbayonets.com/Bayonet...4/b1074_0.html)

The one on top seems to be British: "Sword bayonet for use with the Short Magazine Lee-Enfield No. I Mk. III (SMLE) .303 caliber rifle. These rifles were the British mainstay during WWI. The SMLE also saw extensive use by Commonwealth countries during WWII."(http://www.worldbayonets.com/Bayonet...2/b1072_0.html)

Confirmation would be appreciated.

Steel_Tomb · 04-06-08, 06:46 AM

I can't possitively confirm it, but the top one deffinately looks like a british one to me from what I've seen in documentaries and the like. Can't say about the German one at the bottom though. Perhaps the Jerry he got them off had gotten a British one from the initial fighting?

Dronston · 04-06-08, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Perhaps the Jerry he got them off had gotten a British one from the initial fighting?

I guess that's possible. I'm afraid I'll never know the exact story.

Dronston · 04-06-08, 07:52 AM

I'm still searching the net for more info but I have the impression that the leather belt attachment (frog) belongs to the german bayonet in stead of the British one and were apparantly switched.

Trex · 04-06-08, 09:22 AM

Bottom one is almost certainly for the Kar 98, the standard WW2 German bolt-action rifle. It was basically a shortened and otherwise-modified Gew 98 (their standard WW1 rifle) AND was adopted in 1935. The '98' refers to the year of adoption of the basic design, BTW.

Top one appears to be the SMLE bayonet as you say. However, there are some very similar ones, so dimensions and, in particular, markings would be useful. Look on the wood handle and at the base of the blade.

As to the frog on the top sheath, good question. It does not look like the typical British-issue one, but the pressures of WW1 may have led to non-standard ones being used. As well, the SMLE was used in many commonwealth nations until well after WW2; this could be a non-British SMLE frog. Alternatively, as suggested by Dronston, this could be from another type of bayonet entirely; it does resemble the KAR 98 frog. Again, markings would help if you can find any.

Stealth Hunter · 04-06-08, 09:52 AM

Trex is right. The short and somewhat stout one is definitely made for the K98 bolt-action rifle, standard issue for the German army. The first one appears to be a British sword bayonet for the Lee-Enfield Mk.III.

This is pretty cool. I've got a couple of old bayonets and swords, but I've never really bothered to look into them. My favorite bayonet I'm fairly sure is Japanese (definitely a sword bayonet; has a wavy blade), but I could be wrong on that. Most of the swords I have are not from Germany or Britain, though. I've got a pair that have silver grips/hand-guards that are modeled to reflect the particular style of Indian craftsmanship and another that is a Janissary saber from the 15th Century (or so I was told by my grandfather; don't know if it's true or not).

You've sparked my interest into investigating these weapons more and more. Thanks for the post. This is a really good topic.

04-06-08, 06:31 AM	#1
Dronston Lieutenant Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Netherlands Posts: 263 Downloads: 68 Uploads: 0	Bayonets About 15 years ago my Grandmother gave me two bayonets that had belonged to my Grandfather. The story was that he had been part of Dutch resistance and these bayonets were captured from the Germans, which can't be the whole story 'cause one of them is British. (nobody is left alive to ask ) They have been in my fathers attic and I recently got them back. So I tried to identify them but am not sure. Does anyone here know for sure? http://www.worldbayonets.com/Bayonet...ion_guide.html The one on the bottom is German and seems to be a M1884/98 III (http://www.worldbayonets.com/Bayonet...4/b1074_0.html) The one on top seems to be British: "Sword bayonet for use with the Short Magazine Lee-Enfield No. I Mk. III (SMLE) .303 caliber rifle. These rifles were the British mainstay during WWI. The SMLE also saw extensive use by Commonwealth countries during WWII."(http://www.worldbayonets.com/Bayonet...2/b1072_0.html) Confirmation would be appreciated. __________________ Live to fight another day!

04-06-08, 06:46 AM	#2
Steel_Tomb Ace of the Deep Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Cambridgeshire - UK Posts: 1,128 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I can't possitively confirm it, but the top one deffinately looks like a british one to me from what I've seen in documentaries and the like. Can't say about the German one at the bottom though. Perhaps the Jerry he got them off had gotten a British one from the initial fighting? __________________ _______________________________________________ System Spec: Intel Core 2 Duo 2.4Ghz \| 4Gb Corsair XMS2 Dominator DDR2 PC-2 6400 RAM \| XFX GeForce 8800GTS 640mb PCI-E \| Creative X-fi sound card \| 250Gb HDD \| *Rest In Peace Dave, you will be missed.*

04-06-08, 07:52 AM	#4
Dronston Lieutenant Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Netherlands Posts: 263 Downloads: 68 Uploads: 0	I'm still searching the net for more info but I have the impression that the leather belt attachment (frog) belongs to the german bayonet in stead of the British one and were apparantly switched. __________________ Live to fight another day!

04-06-08, 09:22 AM	#5
Trex Lieutenant Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 262 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Bottom one is almost certainly for the Kar 98, the standard WW2 German bolt-action rifle. It was basically a shortened and otherwise-modified Gew 98 (their standard WW1 rifle) AND was adopted in 1935. The '98' refers to the year of adoption of the basic design, BTW. Top one appears to be the SMLE bayonet as you say. However, there are some very similar ones, so dimensions and, in particular, markings would be useful. Look on the wood handle and at the base of the blade. As to the frog on the top sheath, good question. It does not look like the typical British-issue one, but the pressures of WW1 may have led to non-standard ones being used. As well, the SMLE was used in many commonwealth nations until well after WW2; this could be a non-British SMLE frog. Alternatively, as suggested by Dronston, this could be from another type of bayonet entirely; it does resemble the KAR 98 frog. Again, markings would help if you can find any.

04-06-08, 09:52 AM	#6
Stealth Hunter Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Y'ha-Nthlei Posts: 4,262 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Trex is right. The short and somewhat stout one is definitely made for the K98 bolt-action rifle, standard issue for the German army. The first one appears to be a British sword bayonet for the Lee-Enfield Mk.III. This is pretty cool. I've got a couple of old bayonets and swords, but I've never really bothered to look into them. My favorite bayonet I'm fairly sure is Japanese (definitely a sword bayonet; has a wavy blade), but I could be wrong on that. Most of the swords I have are not from Germany or Britain, though. I've got a pair that have silver grips/hand-guards that are modeled to reflect the particular style of Indian craftsmanship and another that is a Janissary saber from the 15th Century (or so I was told by my grandfather; don't know if it's true or not). You've sparked my interest into investigating these weapons more and more. Thanks for the post. This is a really good topic.