Expanding campaign to include spanish civil war?

[bgeorgalas]

Hi to all, just seen the "alternate history" post and it came in my mind that there were actually 2 german submarines to fight on the spanish civil war....(see http://uboat.net/articles/index.html?article=59 )

Since i am not familiar with sh3 modding i would like to ask the modders outhere if it would be possible to make an sh3 carreer start on 1936....do a couple of patrols untill the spanish civil war ends and warp to 1939 retaining the boat, crew and ofcource experience earned.....

I understand that one would first do some searching about the countries involved / routes followed by merchants / "allied" and "enemy" units and then redesign the mission files.....do you consider it feasibile?

[JScones]

...do a couple of patrols untill the spanish civil war ends...

The civil war lasted upwards three years. That's more than a couple of patrols.

From a realism perspective, it could be done. One would just need to fill 1937 to 1939 with "stuff" like training patrols, or very extended periods of R&R, LOL! A potential yawn factor of 10 though.

But were one to stretch reality, then there's increased scope. In fact, I was thinking about this only yesterday when reading GE's thread. My thinking was that rather than withdraw U-33 and U-34 in Dec 1936, the Germans decide to increase the size of 2 Flotilla presence and send more boats, perhaps as a result of the Republicans not blaming a mine for the sinking of C-3, but blaming the Germans outright (first deviation from reality). New careers could start in Jan 1939 with Germany well involved (a good compromise which avoids long periods of "nothing" to fill in time) with something "dreamt up" to fill the 5 month gap between the end of the Civil War and beginning of the World War (perhaps some second deviation from reality).

I see the events in Spain as having good potential for creating an "alternate reality". I mean, let's suppose that Hitler agreed to Franco's (real life) demands in 1940 (well, why even 1940, no reason why it couldn't have been agreed to earlier - it is make believe after all) - Spain and all its colonies would then join the Axis.

The Spanish would subsequently invade Portugal with German military support, bringing Portugal and all its colonies in as an Ally.

Meanwhile, the Germans would then have clear passage to Gibraltar. Operation Felix would be put into effect much earlier (perhaps after Portugal falls). Through sheer attrition, Gibraltar would fall to the Axis after 3 months of heavy fighting.

In addition to Spain and later Portugal, Spanish Morocco, Spanish West Africa and Spanish Guinea all become potential places to locate u-boat bases.

Imagination could then apply the impact of this scenario across the whole war. Would Spain leave the Axis with Italy in 1943?

DISCLAIMER: I'm making this up simply for the purpose of outlining a possible "alternate reality" story. No political commentary or inference is intended.

[Sirkam]

Mmm...
The Spanish civil war start from 1936 to 1939, and i dont know if a few germans subs were operational (maybe Type II).
It was a war between the Republic and the nacionalists, the nacionalist (leading by Franco) won the war (they had the new BF-190 fighters and Panzers II/III and the Republic had I-16 Polikarpov fighters and T-26 tanks....but in less quantity) and created a fascist regimen that sympathetic with the Nazi regimen.
Hitler and Franco had a reunion with clear intentions: allying Spain with the Axis. Franco wants Gibraltar and more possesions to enter Spain to the Axis powers(Spain was very worn for the Civil War) and, for granted, enter in the Second World War. Hitler can't accept the demands and Spain remained neutral (but Franco Help Germany (secretly) sending the "Legion Condor" and Mölders pilots to the East front (Russia), only for few time) .

It would be interesting see an "alternate history campaign" for Spain in the Second World War, because it's my country.

[JScones]

Originally Posted by Sirkam

Mmm...
The Spanish civil war start from 1936 to 1939, and i dont know if a few germans subs were operational (maybe Type II).

U-33 and U-34 were VIIA's. They arrived in Nov 1936 and were gone by Dec 1936, after sinking one Republican submarine.

Apparently other U-boats appeared in ports along the Spanish coast from time-to-time (like U-35). IIRC I read somewhere that there were a few in Ibiza at the same time that Deutschland was attacked by Republican aircraft, in 1937. And didn't a U-boat torpedo a Brit warship by mistake (played down by Chamberlain)?

[Sirkam]

Originally Posted by JScones

U-33 and U-34 were VIIA's. They arrived in Nov 1936 and were gone by Dec 1936, after sinking one Republican submarine.

Apparently other U-boats appeared in ports along the Spanish coast from time-to-time (like U-35). IIRC I read somewhere that there were a few in Ibiza at the same time that Deutschland was attacked by Republican aircraft, in 1937. And didn't a U-boat torpedo a Brit warship by mistake (played down by Chamberlain)?

Interesting, Type VII subs docked at Spain and sank a Republican sub, but they stayed for a little time, i dont know that fact . Thanks for the information JScones.

[gimpy117]

why use alt reality, just add in the histroical part
and training missions would a let you get experiance and B. let you explore woithout the chance of getitng killed just think an elite crew in 39'

[bgeorgalas]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

why use alt reality, just add in the histroical part
and training missions would a let you get experiance and B. let you explore woithout the chance of getitng killed just think an elite crew in 39'

Excatly my thoughts!!!!

[Klaus_Doldinger]

Originally Posted by Sirkam

(they had the new BF-190 fighters and Panzers II/III and the Republic had I-16 Polikarpov fighters and T-26 tanks....but in less quantity)

No one Panzer II/III saw action in Spain during the Civil War. Only Panzer I and italian tankettes were sent to Nationalists. Me-109 fighters were sent from 1937 onwards.

The T-26 was present in Spain in respectable quantities, being a far more advanced tank that any thing that the nationalists could oppose him.

[G.K.]

Just found this topic ( I had a simmilar idea and i want to create a new topic...:rotfl: )

Wouldn't it be possible to made spanish operations as ,,advanced tutorial", whitch would not influence the war career from 1939 on (or if possible...:hmm. Talking just about 3-5 missions to learn advanced tactics of attacking, avoiding enemy counterattacks and air attacks ( mission with Deutschland bombing??? ).

VII A could be modelled, it is quite a simmilar with VII B, just with shorter range and less aft torps. Or VII B Could be used.

I'm Highly inexperienced with modding, so just sending ,,batch of ideas". I could also work on the missions...