Psycic Merchants - 1.4 or TM

Weigh-Man · 12-07-07, 07:09 AM

I am running SH4 V1.4 with TM1.7 + 1.7.1 Patch, I did a complete re-install so I know everything is where it should be.

My current patrol is in a Gato Class in January 1944 (although I have experienced this earlier in the war as well).

Basically every time I approach a lone merchant while submerged at 100 ft or more, the merchant 'spots' me and starts zigzagging. Now I could understand it if they had seen me coming or the periscope was stuck out of the water, but at 150ft below the surface, how do they know I am there?

Do they have hyrdophones or sonar on late war merchants?

This happens everytime I approach a merchant, I have tried various different tactics, inluding just sitting and waiting at all stop and 250ft deep, but they still spot me every time.

Is this a 1.4 issue or could it be TM, I read that Ducimus was having some problems with TM and was thinking of starting again but that seemed to be more to do with the ROW elements than anything else.

Anyway I would be interested to hear from anyone with similar problems.

fireship4 · 12-07-07, 09:17 AM

you may well simply be observing normal couse zig-zags which were added in some mods. Most ships did this I think to make it harder for people like you.

Take your readings just after he has made a change and you will most likely to have a solution and hits before he turns again. If you want to go further, time between his turns so you know how much you have in hand.

Also I do think late war merchants might have sonar, but im unsure.

Weigh-Man · 12-07-07, 09:31 AM

I did consider that, so I had a closer look.

I watched the ship approaching from about 8000 yards, It was running in a straight line and continued to do so until about 2000 yards, at which point it started what could only be described as evasive zig zagging.

It resembled the action that merchants take when they see the bubbles from a steam torpedo, but there where no torpedos anywhere near it.

I know taters campaign layers included in TM added more realistic course changes for ships, but this seems to be more than that.

Ducimus · 12-07-07, 10:50 AM

One possibility is that you were detected by a plane (which can see you below periscope depth), and it alerted the merchant to your presence. BTW, version 1.7.1 is old news.

tater · 12-07-07, 10:54 AM

Many japanese merchants had hydrophones in RL. Several do in SH4, as well, particularly later in the war.

tater · 12-07-07, 10:56 AM

Also, the reactive stuff you are seeing is really "constant helming." The slowly put the helm over, and then slowly bring it back and go the other way, they describe a shallow sine curve.

12-07-07, 07:09 AM	#1
Weigh-Man Machinist's Mate Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: UK Posts: 121 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	Psycic Merchants - 1.4 or TM I am running SH4 V1.4 with TM1.7 + 1.7.1 Patch, I did a complete re-install so I know everything is where it should be. My current patrol is in a Gato Class in January 1944 (although I have experienced this earlier in the war as well). Basically every time I approach a lone merchant while submerged at 100 ft or more, the merchant 'spots' me and starts zigzagging. Now I could understand it if they had seen me coming or the periscope was stuck out of the water, but at 150ft below the surface, how do they know I am there? Do they have hyrdophones or sonar on late war merchants? This happens everytime I approach a merchant, I have tried various different tactics, inluding just sitting and waiting at all stop and 250ft deep, but they still spot me every time. Is this a 1.4 issue or could it be TM, I read that Ducimus was having some problems with TM and was thinking of starting again but that seemed to be more to do with the ROW elements than anything else. Anyway I would be interested to hear from anyone with similar problems.

12-07-07, 09:17 AM	#2
fireship4 Ensign Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 221 Downloads: 41 Uploads: 0	you may well simply be observing normal couse zig-zags which were added in some mods. Most ships did this I think to make it harder for people like you. Take your readings just after he has made a change and you will most likely to have a solution and hits before he turns again. If you want to go further, time between his turns so you know how much you have in hand. Also I do think late war merchants might have sonar, but im unsure. __________________ Rest in peace Dave

12-07-07, 09:31 AM	#3
Weigh-Man Machinist's Mate Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: UK Posts: 121 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	I did consider that, so I had a closer look. I watched the ship approaching from about 8000 yards, It was running in a straight line and continued to do so until about 2000 yards, at which point it started what could only be described as evasive zig zagging. It resembled the action that merchants take when they see the bubbles from a steam torpedo, but there where no torpedos anywhere near it. I know taters campaign layers included in TM added more realistic course changes for ships, but this seems to be more than that.

12-07-07, 10:50 AM	#4
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	One possibility is that you were detected by a plane (which can see you below periscope depth), and it alerted the merchant to your presence. BTW, version 1.7.1 is old news.

12-07-07, 10:54 AM	#5
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Many japanese merchants had hydrophones in RL. Several do in SH4, as well, particularly later in the war.

12-07-07, 10:56 AM	#6
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Also, the reactive stuff you are seeing is really "constant helming." The slowly put the helm over, and then slowly bring it back and go the other way, they describe a shallow sine curve.