[WIP] Psuedo Narwhal class Fleet boat

Ducimus · 11-20-07, 05:51 AM

Simply put, this is my feeble attempt to put the much requested Narwhal class boat into SH4. Since the addon/expansion isn't going to do it, i guess its up to us. Its my hope that eventually, someone will do better then i am doing with this. I cannot do 3d/wireframe modeling, so my capabilties are limited. Hence, this is a "Psuedo Narwhal". Im using the Sargo as a base. Ive instantiated a new object, and have created a deck gun setup, specifically for the Narwhal , twin 4" 50's. I know the real Narwhal had bigger guns, but im limited to whats useable/crewable by subs. Maybe i can get them to take a larger caliber round. Ill look into that later.

At any rate this is a WIP. When i have accomplished a few more things, ill post it if someone wants to try it out.

List of things to do:
1.) Remove tubes 7 and 8, as the Narwhal had 4 forward, 2 aft. (game is stubbonrly still having them, despite my best efforts to remove all refrences of these tubes in the UPC file.)

2.) Adjust the dat file for
a.) slower dive time
b.) Top speed of... i think its 17 kts
c.) Adjust surface endurance, to be in the neighborhood of 18,000 NM @ 10 kts. (this tub, had some range to it)

Known issue:
1.) Current use of dat file (rather then inheirting it)is causing a CTD in the musem, arguably because i have a 2nd dat file with duplicate nodes (sargo).

IF,
This CTD is limited to the musem with no other issues
THEN
ill just let it go.

If
This Issue is causing huge saved game file sizes
THEN
I'll wait tell after patch 1.4 and try and go and rename each and every "sargo" in the dat file to "narwhal" to eliminate the duplicate node names.

Ive done this before with the gar, and it seemed to work ok.

2.) Forward deck gun is uncontrollable by the player, so you'll have to rely on your crew for the forward gun. (rear gun is controllable) This is due to hardcoded limitations on control access. While the game has a "cycle AA gun" functionality, it doesnt have "cycle deck gun" functionality.

Oh yeah, i guess screenshots would help....

Musem. If i select Sargo after this, it will CTD. Presumably because its loading the same dat with nodes again, game doesnt like that. Note, twin guns.

Guns, manned and ready.

Note, their not 5'25 guns, but 4'50's. I used them because they look bigger, and the Narwhal's guns were freaking huge.

Im using the Porpoise interior because i think it fits.

That and theirs only torpdo lights for 4 forward, 2 aft tubes, which is my goal. Hopefully i can get rid of tubes 7 and 8, if not, ill have to let it go. The porpoise, i think is just too small for this.

Ats all i have for now, bed time.

Hitman · 11-20-07, 08:24 AM

GREAT

Many thanks for your efforts

Some quick observations:

1.- You would need the older conning tower, AFAIK the Narwhals didn't switch to the cut-down profile during the war.

2.- I take it you will modify tonnage and maneuverability to better values? Narwhals were slow and bad handling, plus increased tonnage would also affect the ASDIC profile

Cheers

P.S. Do you need pictures or more info? I can look for some stuff in my archives and around the web

ReallyDedPoet · 11-20-07, 08:39 AM

Nice Ducimus

RDP

Peto · 11-20-07, 11:40 AM

Maybe you can get around the torpedo tube problem by limiting reloads. I believe the Narwhal & Nautlis had 2 external tubes forward and aft which couldn't be reloaded. :hmm:

Nice job Ducimus! Can't put 6" guns on her huh?

Ducimus · 11-20-07, 12:27 PM

Quote:

1.- You would need the older conning tower, AFAIK the Narwhals didn't switch to the cut-down profile during the war.

Thats not a problem. I'll go find some picture on navsource to be sure.

Quote:

2.- I take it you will modify tonnage and maneuverability to better values? Narwhals were slow and bad handling, plus increased tonnage would also affect the ASDIC profile

If i can continue to use a renamed sargo.dat file, then yes i will change all the values. Im concerned with large filesize game saves occuring, i need to test that.

Quote:

Can't put 6" guns on her huh?

Do we have 6 " deck guns useable by player subs? Honest question, id much rather use those, then 4"'s. The only way around this is to increase the shell damage somehow, and then use a specific shell the other guns do not. Not sure if this is possible yet, its just an idea.

edit:

I love it when a plan is coming together.

I forgot to test the deck guns against an acutal target. I did that after i tweaked the crew positions on the fore deck gun to get better effeciency out of them. Parkers Tincan was an excellent test subject since he doesnt fire back. lol.

Peto · 11-20-07, 01:02 PM

Not sure about the 6" guns being available but I think your ammo idea for the 4" is a good one. Easier than making a new gun!

Looking Good!!!!

Ducimus · 11-20-07, 10:50 PM

The usual research.
Notes to self:

Displacement: 2,730 tons (surfaced); 3,960 tons (submerged)
Speed: 17 knots (surfaced); 8-1/2 knots (submerged)
Range: 25,000 miles
Torpedoes: 4-21" torpedo tubes (bow), 2-21" torpedo tubes (stern)
source: http://www.fleetsubmarine.com/narwhal-class.html

Displacement: 2730 tons surfaced, 4050 tons submerged
Speed: 17 knots (31 km/h) surfaced, 8 knots (15 km/h) submerged
Range: N/a
Torpedoes: six 21-inch (53cm) torpedo tubes (four forward, two aft; 24 torpedoes); 2 x 6 in (152 mm)/53 caliber guns, 2 x0.30" (7.62 mm) machineguns
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Narwhal_(SS-167)

Displacement: 2730 (surfaced); 3960 (submerged)
Speed: Surfaced, 17.4, Submerged 8.5
Range: 18,000 miles at 8 knots
Torpedoes: 2 6-inch/53 Mk15 deck guns, 6 21-inch torpedo tubes (4 fwd, 2 aft), 4 external 21-inch torpedo tubes (2 fwd, 2 aft); 1942
source: http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...-167-specs.htm

Displacement: Surfaced: 2,730 t., Submerged: 3,960
Speed: Surfaced 17 kts, Submerged 8 kts
Range: Fuel Capacity, 182,778 gal
Torpedoes: four 21" torpedo tubes forward, two 21" torpedo tubes aft, four 21" torpedo tubes topside, 24 torpedoes; two single 6"/53 deck gun, two 30 cal. mgs
source: http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/08167a.htm

Peto · 11-20-07, 11:16 PM

I doubt this is possible but it would be cool if it would get Special Missions as pretty much a default. After the Argonaut was sunk by destroyers, Nautlis and Narwhal were pretty much regulated to moving troops etc.

Since the sargo is what you've been working with I'd recommend just going with that (reversing my earlier vote). It really doesn't matter as much to me as I disable external view.

Salute!

Ducimus · 11-20-07, 11:31 PM

>>I doubt this is possible but it would be cool if it would get Special Missions as pretty much a default.

Located in Tmaru's support directory, is one of my repeat patrol fixes that has more special ops in it. Look closely at that, and you'll see that half my work is already done in this regard

So yes, i can fix it to where all you do, is commando/spy drops or photo ops. Lifeguard will take more finageling though.

Peto · 11-20-07, 11:41 PM

I'd leave the lifeguarding out. These boats didn't do that/were too clumsy. And it means less finageling for you

!

Ducimus · 11-21-07, 03:30 AM

Sargo model is functioning, and as so far error free. Half of this modding, is just setting up the missions.

Right now i have it to where, the only mission you'll get, is supply drops, spy insertions, and commando drops. Thats it. The missions rotate every 2 months. With alternating assigments to Pearl harbor command areas, and Fremantle command areas, with 1 commando insertion at Attu. So you'll be a regular globe trotter. The boat is stationed only in pearl at the moment. This is a test, im not going to flesh it out for the entire game just yet.

Physics wise, its behaving, pretty damn cool. Ive adjusted the fuel capacity to 25,000 NM @ 10 kts, lowered the top speed to 17, lowered floodrate, and adjusted displacement values to what was historically correct.. and.. the boat is behaving beautiflly, and noticeably different. As a nice side effect of lowering the top speed and upping the displacement, "ahead standard" comes out to be exactly 10 kts. 1/3rd comes out to be about 7 kts, and is still the most fuel effiecient setting.

Not releasing it yet. I want to backtrack, and create a 2nd version for the porpoise, then release both versions at the same time.

Im feeling pretty good about this.

11-20-07, 05:51 AM	#1
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	[WIP] Psuedo Narwhal class Fleet boat Simply put, this is my feeble attempt to put the much requested Narwhal class boat into SH4. Since the addon/expansion isn't going to do it, i guess its up to us. Its my hope that eventually, someone will do better then i am doing with this. I cannot do 3d/wireframe modeling, so my capabilties are limited. Hence, this is a "Psuedo Narwhal". Im using the Sargo as a base. Ive instantiated a new object, and have created a deck gun setup, specifically for the Narwhal , twin 4" 50's. I know the real Narwhal had bigger guns, but im limited to whats useable/crewable by subs. Maybe i can get them to take a larger caliber round. Ill look into that later. At any rate this is a WIP. When i have accomplished a few more things, ill post it if someone wants to try it out. List of things to do: 1.) Remove tubes 7 and 8, as the Narwhal had 4 forward, 2 aft. (game is stubbonrly still having them, despite my best efforts to remove all refrences of these tubes in the UPC file.) 2.) Adjust the dat file for a.) slower dive time b.) Top speed of... i think its 17 kts c.) Adjust surface endurance, to be in the neighborhood of 18,000 NM @ 10 kts. (this tub, had some range to it) Known issue: 1.) Current use of dat file (rather then inheirting it)is causing a CTD in the musem, arguably because i have a 2nd dat file with duplicate nodes (sargo). IF, This CTD is limited to the musem with no other issues THEN ill just let it go. If This Issue is causing huge saved game file sizes THEN I'll wait tell after patch 1.4 and try and go and rename each and every "sargo" in the dat file to "narwhal" to eliminate the duplicate node names. Ive done this before with the gar, and it seemed to work ok. 2.) Forward deck gun is uncontrollable by the player, so you'll have to rely on your crew for the forward gun. (rear gun is controllable) This is due to hardcoded limitations on control access. While the game has a "cycle AA gun" functionality, it doesnt have "cycle deck gun" functionality. Oh yeah, i guess screenshots would help.... Musem. If i select Sargo after this, it will CTD. Presumably because its loading the same dat with nodes again, game doesnt like that. Note, twin guns. Guns, manned and ready. Note, their not 5'25 guns, but 4'50's. I used them because they look bigger, and the Narwhal's guns were freaking huge. Im using the Porpoise interior because i think it fits. That and theirs only torpdo lights for 4 forward, 2 aft tubes, which is my goal. Hopefully i can get rid of tubes 7 and 8, if not, ill have to let it go. The porpoise, i think is just too small for this. Ats all i have for now, bed time.

11-20-07, 08:24 AM	#2
Hitman Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 6,109 Downloads: 109 Uploads: 2	GREAT Many thanks for your efforts Some quick observations: 1.- You would need the older conning tower, AFAIK the Narwhals didn't switch to the cut-down profile during the war. 2.- I take it you will modify tonnage and maneuverability to better values? Narwhals were slow and bad handling, plus increased tonnage would also affect the ASDIC profile Cheers P.S. Do you need pictures or more info? I can look for some stuff in my archives and around the web __________________ One day I will return to sea ...

11-20-07, 08:39 AM	#3
ReallyDedPoet Canadian Wolf Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Canada. The one and only, East Coast Posts: 10,888 Downloads: 946 Uploads: 5	Nice Ducimus RDP __________________ Back in the Day

11-20-07, 11:40 AM	#4
Peto Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The details of my life are quite inconsequential Posts: 1,049 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Maybe you can get around the torpedo tube problem by limiting reloads. I believe the Narwhal & Nautlis had 2 external tubes forward and aft which couldn't be reloaded. :hmm: Nice job Ducimus! Can't put 6" guns on her huh? __________________ If your target has a 30 degree AOB, the range from his base course line equals the current range divided by 2.

11-20-07, 01:02 PM	#6
Peto Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The details of my life are quite inconsequential Posts: 1,049 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Not sure about the 6" guns being available but I think your ammo idea for the 4" is a good one. Easier than making a new gun! Looking Good!!!! __________________ If your target has a 30 degree AOB, the range from his base course line equals the current range divided by 2.

11-20-07, 10:50 PM	#7
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	The usual research. Notes to self: Displacement: 2,730 tons (surfaced); 3,960 tons (submerged) Speed: 17 knots (surfaced); 8-1/2 knots (submerged) Range: 25,000 miles Torpedoes: 4-21" torpedo tubes (bow), 2-21" torpedo tubes (stern) source: http://www.fleetsubmarine.com/narwhal-class.html Displacement: 2730 tons surfaced, 4050 tons submerged Speed: 17 knots (31 km/h) surfaced, 8 knots (15 km/h) submerged Range: N/a Torpedoes: six 21-inch (53cm) torpedo tubes (four forward, two aft; 24 torpedoes); 2 x 6 in (152 mm)/53 caliber guns, 2 x0.30" (7.62 mm) machineguns Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Narwhal_(SS-167) Displacement: 2730 (surfaced); 3960 (submerged) Speed: Surfaced, 17.4, Submerged 8.5 Range: 18,000 miles at 8 knots Torpedoes: 2 6-inch/53 Mk15 deck guns, 6 21-inch torpedo tubes (4 fwd, 2 aft), 4 external 21-inch torpedo tubes (2 fwd, 2 aft); 1942 source: http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...-167-specs.htm Displacement: Surfaced: 2,730 t., Submerged: 3,960 Speed: Surfaced 17 kts, Submerged 8 kts Range: Fuel Capacity, 182,778 gal Torpedoes: four 21" torpedo tubes forward, two 21" torpedo tubes aft, four 21" torpedo tubes topside, 24 torpedoes; two single 6"/53 deck gun, two 30 cal. mgs source: http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/08167a.htm

11-20-07, 11:16 PM	#8
Peto Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The details of my life are quite inconsequential Posts: 1,049 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	I doubt this is possible but it would be cool if it would get Special Missions as pretty much a default. After the Argonaut was sunk by destroyers, Nautlis and Narwhal were pretty much regulated to moving troops etc. Since the sargo is what you've been working with I'd recommend just going with that (reversing my earlier vote). It really doesn't matter as much to me as I disable external view. Salute! __________________ If your target has a 30 degree AOB, the range from his base course line equals the current range divided by 2.

11-20-07, 11:31 PM	#9
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	>>I doubt this is possible but it would be cool if it would get Special Missions as pretty much a default. Located in Tmaru's support directory, is one of my repeat patrol fixes that has more special ops in it. Look closely at that, and you'll see that half my work is already done in this regard So yes, i can fix it to where all you do, is commando/spy drops or photo ops. Lifeguard will take more finageling though.

11-20-07, 11:41 PM	#10
Peto Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The details of my life are quite inconsequential Posts: 1,049 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	I'd leave the lifeguarding out. These boats didn't do that/were too clumsy. And it means less finageling for you ! __________________ If your target has a 30 degree AOB, the range from his base course line equals the current range divided by 2.

11-21-07, 03:30 AM	#11
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Sargo model is functioning, and as so far error free. Half of this modding, is just setting up the missions. Right now i have it to where, the only mission you'll get, is supply drops, spy insertions, and commando drops. Thats it. The missions rotate every 2 months. With alternating assigments to Pearl harbor command areas, and Fremantle command areas, with 1 commando insertion at Attu. So you'll be a regular globe trotter. The boat is stationed only in pearl at the moment. This is a test, im not going to flesh it out for the entire game just yet. Physics wise, its behaving, pretty damn cool. Ive adjusted the fuel capacity to 25,000 NM @ 10 kts, lowered the top speed to 17, lowered floodrate, and adjusted displacement values to what was historically correct.. and.. the boat is behaving beautiflly, and noticeably different. As a nice side effect of lowering the top speed and upping the displacement, "ahead standard" comes out to be exactly 10 kts. 1/3rd comes out to be about 7 kts, and is still the most fuel effiecient setting. Not releasing it yet. I want to backtrack, and create a 2nd version for the porpoise, then release both versions at the same time. Im feeling pretty good about this.