Harbor raids - A true story?

[odjig292]

There's a thread below that talks about harbor raids in SH4. In the fall of 1942, a US submarine called at Esquimalt, the Canadian naval base near Victoria and tied up alongside the ship where my father was XO. His ship had been part of the joint US-Canadian task force patrols to Dutch Harbor after the Japanese invaded Attu and Kiska. Canadian ships have a "wet" wardroom and he welcomed the sub captain and officers to Canada. After several rounds, they offered him a tour for me. I was 8 at the time. The crew couldn't have been nicer and gave me a full tour, including a look through the periscope. They invited me for lunch and served ham and pineapple. Meat was rationed during the war and no one saw pineapple. They even gave me seconds so this in itself was a major treat. Over lunch they told me how they had spent the day on the bottom of a Japanese harbor and could see the race course through the periscope, so spent the afternoon betting among themselves on the races. I was sworn to secrecy about this story. By this time my eyes must have been the size of saucers. It is only in later years that I wondered if it was true. I have no recollection as to the name of the submarine but have never seen reference to anything like it in any of the histories of US submarines. Has anyone ever run across a story like this?

[Ducimus]

Harbor raids in the pacifc, in general, are true. Many reported incidents, (and photo's to back them up). In the altantic, other then scapa flow, harbor raids are little more then fiction.

[Mush Martin]

Hi Odjig were you aboard HMCS Prince david

there is a tale of a us submarine that watched the
racetrack through the periscope.

Part of what they told you is true part is not.

According to Adm Charles Lockwood in his book
"Sink em all" the sub did sit there and see the racetrack
however no races were being run at the time.

Ill try to find the name of the sub.

[Lafferty]

Yeah i have heard many stories about Harbor Raids. So i know for sure that they happened.

[AVGWarhawk]

Read up on the USS Wahoo. Going into harbors was not an issue and Mush Morton made many harbor raids.

[nematode]

The story that you heard was a sub legend, documented in Clay Blair's Silent Victory. After what was thought at the time to be a record-setting patrol by Burt Klakring in USS Guardfish, the USN held a press conference, rare for the sub service, to give newspaper reporters some morale building stuff to write about for the folks back home. The reporters were shown a chart, and on the chart was a notation for "race track". A reporter asked about it, and Klakring, having some fun with the press, said that the crew placed bets on the ponies while watching the races. While it's true that Guardfish operated very close to the coast of Honshu, it was just a story, but it made for a great one, and newspapers all over America ran it.

As for harbor raids, there's some sub legend in that too. There were numerous cases of US subs making attacks on Japanese shipping at anchor. Examples of US attacks are Mush at Wewak, Street at Cheju-Do, and the various attacks on Matsuwa in the Kuriles.

But, the places chosen for attacks weren't harbors in the sense that people in the US and Europe think of a harbor as, like New York harbor or San Francisco Bay. Rather, these were anchorages that were open to the sea, where the trick was to avoid uncharted shallows and enemy defenses and deal with in-shore currents to come close enough to achieve a firing position on ships anchored next to shore, then get away alive....but not, like Prien at Scapa Flow, sailing miles up a narrow channel to hit a ship in a harbor.

SH4 gives one the impression that US subs snuck up miles of estuary deep into Japanese harbors to pick off ships at the dock, like in Tokyo Bay or the Inland Sea, and nothing like that ever happened. But, it makes for a great story.

[odjig292]

Mush, how the heck did you know it was HMCS Prince David? You know your history. Yes, it was the PD. My father was XO for the Aleutians Campaign and then took over as CO and took it through the D-Day, Southern France and Greece invasions.

I don't think I have read Lockwood's book. I'll get it from the local naval museum library. The fact that the sub saw the racetrack is close enough. They probably enjoyed having a gullible kid as an audience. but it sure made my day. Thanks for the confirmation that the story had some truth.

[Ducimus]

SH4 gives one the impression that US subs snuck up miles of estuary deep into Japanese harbors to pick off ships at the dock, like in Tokyo Bay or the Inland Sea, and nothing like that ever happened.

My world geography's a little rusty, where was this again? Granted its not sinking ships, but the location of this foto is very telling.



I particuarlly loved this pictures taken by the Seawolf:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/0819705.jpg
http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/0819706.jpg

(navsources doesnt like picture linking, so heres the orginal page)
http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/08197.htm
"Seen by Seawolf (SS-197) at Davao Gulf-Sagami Maru in Talomo Bay. Periscope snapshot shows jungly shoreline; camouflaged ship loading hemp. Then she got a load of - fish from "Fearless Freddie" Warder."

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by nematode

SH4 gives one the impression that US subs snuck up miles of estuary deep into Japanese harbors to pick off ships at the dock, like in Tokyo Bay or the Inland Sea, and nothing like that ever happened. But, it makes for a great story.

Not only did it happen, but it happened in the most spectacular fashion with USS Barb (Fluckey) sneaking through miles of narrow, sampan and mine-infested waters, less than 100' and most of the time less than 50' deep, to enter Namkwan Harbor on 23 January, 1945. For this attack, he became the only living sub commander to be awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor. When you make blanket statements about US Sub conduct in WWII, it is almost obligatory to make an exception for Capt Eugene Fluckey! Otherwise you risk being in error most of the time.

[nematode]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Not only did it happen, but it happened in the most spectacular fashion with USS Barb (Fluckey) sneaking through miles of narrow, sampan and mine-infested waters, less than 100' and most of the time less than 50' deep, to enter Namkwan Harbor on 23 January, 1945.

Thanks for that info RR. What I show for Fluckey on 23-Jan-1945 is Taikyo Maru a 5244GRT freighter sunk at 27-04N, 120-07E which is 5000 yards off the coast of China in the East China Sea, from a group of 30 anchored ships spaced 500 yards apart in 3 columns, making for a mass of shipping some 1500 yards deep and some 5000 yards long.

Please correct my data if it's wrong. If my data is accurate, I'm sorry, but that's an attack on an open water anchorage, and not a harbor. That conclusion does not take away from the valor of Fluckey's actions. It's merely a result from an honest attempt at learning a truth about history.

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

For this attack, he became the only living sub commander to be awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor. When you make blanket statements about US Sub conduct in WWII, it is almost obligatory to make an exception for Capt Eugene Fluckey! Otherwise you risk being in error most of the time.

Perhaps you mean Fluckey was the first living sub skipper MoH recipient. O'Kane, Street, and Ramage were also alive at the time they were awarded the MoH.

[TheSatyr]

Mount Fuji is bugged and takes 12 torps to sink....:rotfl: