attack tactics

cali03boss · 08-16-07, 12:47 PM

I see a lot of people posting about their approaches and how they fire off 4 torpedos then get maybe one or two to hit. My question is what are you guys doing in your approaches? I play the game on 100% realism with all those Tmaru whatevers added on and I get a miss maybe once every 15 shots.

Maybe I've just been playing this and SH3 for too long, but using the map and course finder it seems impossible for anyone to miss a shot unless they've been seen.

Maybe if someone could direct me to a topic where they map out the "correct" way to approach a target....because if everyone is following that and I still hear of people wasting over half of their torpedos.....then obviously it isn't a correct way to approach.

tater · 08-16-07, 01:01 PM

Well, I play with hardcore torpedoes, so a huge % of my fish fail to function properly.

I also fire spreads regardless of what I think my solution is like since they would have in RL.

Wasting only half would make you the best skipper in the fleet in RL (by a long shot since 70% failed in RL).

YMMV.

tater

cali03boss · 08-16-07, 01:03 PM

Then that just goes to show you the lack of realism present in SH4. I typically come back from the patrols with all objectives completed...average of 10k-20k tonnage....ALWAYS have over 75% of my reserve torpedos.

tater · 08-16-07, 01:23 PM

How abnout this. Use the hardcore torpedo mod, and for the first year of the war, set your fish 10 feet under the keel. The fish will run another 10-12 feet under that, and none will hit.

Welcome to RL for the USN, 1942

tater

cali03boss · 08-16-07, 02:18 PM

I'm not talking about depth. I'm talking about the approach, and the gathering of information for the TDC. It seems that some people still miss when using this sytem...reguardless of mods.

tater · 08-16-07, 02:34 PM

Everyone's not the stud on the TDC that you are I guess.

AVGWarhawk · 08-16-07, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cali03boss

I'm not talking about depth. I'm talking about the approach, and the gathering of information for the TDC. It seems that some people still miss when using this sytem...reguardless of mods.

Putting aside the stud deal, some people may not be as patient to get in a 100% guaranteed shot. Some do not understand the mechanics fully. Some do not understand when to use fast torps or slow torps. Some like to keep on trying the magnetic exploder that is a big failure in itself. Perhaps you just have a good grasp on all of the above and do well. If this is the case, help those that ask what your secret is. I see one thread today getting some attention of convoy tactics. Personally, I suck for the most part. 97% realism, outside view only

. Straight up vanilla with textures added and the sinking mechanics mod. No more and no less.

Tater has a point, and wonder if this can be modded in. The skippers were ordered to use the magnetic exploders. Perhaps a mod that will only allow magnetic to be used until the date that Lockwood said to stop using them and use impact.

ktrboston · 08-16-07, 11:19 PM

Apparentlly I must be doing the wrong thing still trying to work on it and trying to full understand the proper or rather best way to approach and intercept. This part eludes me somewhat. Naval sim games are farely new to me. I got SH3 beginning of the year and just got SH4 couple of months ago. There are some very good post on this forum that help folks like me. Sorry but the USAF did not teach proper naval tactics, approaches, and interception at least not on ships.

amurph182 · 08-17-07, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ktrboston

Sorry but the USAF did not teach proper naval tactics, approaches, and interception at least not on ships.

but they did teach you when you use a sand wedge and when to use a pitching wedge, right?

ktrboston · 08-17-07, 09:44 AM

Of Course

Help me improve my short game

gutted · 08-19-07, 08:09 PM

What i've done is create a table for firing angles for 90 degree attacks.

The gist of it is that if you are 90 degrees ofcourse of a target and you know his speed... you dont need to ID him, nor do you need to know his range. This allows you to do rapid attacks vs. multiple ships in a convoy... to the extent that you can have multiple ships being hit almost simultaneously.

as seen in this SH3 video i made a long time ago:
http://jg52.com/gutted/sh3/Convoy.wmv

this is basically what is happening in that video (NOTE: Shooting 1 torpedo per ship is not recommended):

To pull this feat off.. all you need to do is be 90 degrees ofcourse and know his speed. The propertes of the right triangle are such that if you know both legs of it (your torpedo's speed and the ships speed).. you can easily determine any angle inside of it with a simple formula.

I've gone ahead and done the gruntwork for you (rounded to the nearest half degree):

to see it in action:

vs. a 24knot destroyer:
http://jg52.com/gutted/SH4/DD_Attack.wmv

and vs. a Convoy (also shows how to approach without being detected by the lead escort and how to escape):
http://jg52.com/gutted/SH4/ConvoyAttack_90AOB.wmv

enjoy!

Elphaba · 08-20-07, 02:34 AM

Absolutely BRILLIANT!!!! Thanks so much for this and taking the time to make very clear tutorial videos.... I've always wanted to take on convoys & DD's and now you've given me a tool that might finally work for me.

Thanks so much.

Elphaba

switch.dota · 08-20-07, 05:01 AM

So this literally boils down to knowing the target's course and speed, right?

The angle in the table is the one between the green and blue lines, correct? AKA the relative bearing of the ship at the moment the torp is fired.

Rockin Robbins · 08-20-07, 06:33 AM

This is a great way to hit multiple ships and watch them blithely sail over the horizon after you've wasted six torpedoes for no gain. Well, not exactly no gain. You'll be able to tell stories to your pals behind other desks after Admiral Lockwood reams you a new orfice. He has told you once that we attack ships, not convoys. Those who don't learn end up skippering a desk or cleaning out submarines as part of a turnaround crew in Pearl. One thing for sure: they never sail again. Too many skippers will listen and succeed to put up with those who take shortcuts and try to do business the easy way.

"We sink ships in this Navy. We don't damage them. We get in close and hit each ship individually with multiple torpedoes using a proper spread. Don't even shoot if you're not targeting a single ship with intent to kill it. If you have time to target another single ship and kill it too, good. Otherwise pull out, do another end around and resume carnage. Look me in the eye and tell me this is understood. One more chance. Dismissed!"

Damn, that Lockwood sure isn't flexible.

switch.dota · 08-20-07, 07:35 AM

In TM + NSM this is actually quite plausible if you fire 1/2/3 torps per small/med/large merchant. It's unlikely for the said vessel class to take more. Remember that if you get the angle right, this is almost like automatic targetting in that you hit EXACTLY where the periscope is pointing.

In the same TM + NSM combination it's unlikely that anyone will be able to end-around an escorted convoy without wasting a lot of fuel.

08-16-07, 12:47 PM	#1
cali03boss Machinist's Mate Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 123 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	attack tactics I see a lot of people posting about their approaches and how they fire off 4 torpedos then get maybe one or two to hit. My question is what are you guys doing in your approaches? I play the game on 100% realism with all those Tmaru whatevers added on and I get a miss maybe once every 15 shots. Maybe I've just been playing this and SH3 for too long, but using the map and course finder it seems impossible for anyone to miss a shot unless they've been seen. Maybe if someone could direct me to a topic where they map out the "correct" way to approach a target....because if everyone is following that and I still hear of people wasting over half of their torpedos.....then obviously it isn't a correct way to approach. __________________ Sargo Class USS Sargo

08-16-07, 01:01 PM	#2
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Well, I play with hardcore torpedoes, so a huge % of my fish fail to function properly. I also fire spreads regardless of what I think my solution is like since they would have in RL. Wasting only half would make you the best skipper in the fleet in RL (by a long shot since 70% failed in RL). YMMV. tater Last edited by tater; 08-20-07 at 02:17 PM.

08-16-07, 01:03 PM	#3
cali03boss Machinist's Mate Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 123 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Then that just goes to show you the lack of realism present in SH4. I typically come back from the patrols with all objectives completed...average of 10k-20k tonnage....ALWAYS have over 75% of my reserve torpedos. __________________ Sargo Class USS Sargo

08-16-07, 02:18 PM	#5
cali03boss Machinist's Mate Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 123 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	I'm not talking about depth. I'm talking about the approach, and the gathering of information for the TDC. It seems that some people still miss when using this sytem...reguardless of mods. __________________ Sargo Class USS Sargo

08-16-07, 11:19 PM	#8
ktrboston Gunner Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: quincy, ma Posts: 100 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Apparentlly I must be doing the wrong thing still trying to work on it and trying to full understand the proper or rather best way to approach and intercept. This part eludes me somewhat. Naval sim games are farely new to me. I got SH3 beginning of the year and just got SH4 couple of months ago. There are some very good post on this forum that help folks like me. Sorry but the USAF did not teach proper naval tactics, approaches, and interception at least not on ships. __________________ Kapitan Clauus on a 5 day shakedown patrol. New crew, new Kapitan waiting for results. Using GWX 3.0

08-16-07, 01:23 PM	#4
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	How abnout this. Use the hardcore torpedo mod, and for the first year of the war, set your fish 10 feet under the keel. The fish will run another 10-12 feet under that, and none will hit. Welcome to RL for the USN, 1942 tater

08-16-07, 02:34 PM	#6
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Everyone's not the stud on the TDC that you are I guess.

08-17-07, 09:44 AM	#10
ktrboston Gunner Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: quincy, ma Posts: 100 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Of Course Help me improve my short game __________________ Kapitan Clauus on a 5 day shakedown patrol. New crew, new Kapitan waiting for results. Using GWX 3.0

08-19-07, 08:09 PM	#11
gutted The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New Orleans, LA. Posts: 1,379 Downloads: 487 Uploads: 11	Tutorial: How to attack many ships in a convoy. What i've done is create a table for firing angles for 90 degree attacks. The gist of it is that if you are 90 degrees ofcourse of a target and you know his speed... you dont need to ID him, nor do you need to know his range. This allows you to do rapid attacks vs. multiple ships in a convoy... to the extent that you can have multiple ships being hit almost simultaneously. as seen in this SH3 video i made a long time ago: http://jg52.com/gutted/sh3/Convoy.wmv this is basically what is happening in that video (NOTE: Shooting 1 torpedo per ship is not recommended): To pull this feat off.. all you need to do is be 90 degrees ofcourse and know his speed. The propertes of the right triangle are such that if you know both legs of it (your torpedo's speed and the ships speed).. you can easily determine any angle inside of it with a simple formula. I've gone ahead and done the gruntwork for you (rounded to the nearest half degree): to see it in action: vs. a 24knot destroyer: http://jg52.com/gutted/SH4/DD_Attack.wmv and vs. a Convoy (also shows how to approach without being detected by the lead escort and how to escape): http://jg52.com/gutted/SH4/ConvoyAttack_90AOB.wmv enjoy! Last edited by gutted; 08-20-07 at 10:39 PM.

08-20-07, 02:34 AM	#12
Elphaba Neptune's daughter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 325 Downloads: 164 Uploads: 0	Absolutely BRILLIANT!!!! Thanks so much for this and taking the time to make very clear tutorial videos.... I've always wanted to take on convoys & DD's and now you've given me a tool that might finally work for me. Thanks so much. Elphaba

08-20-07, 05:01 AM	#13
switch.dota Captain Join Date: May 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 492 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	So this literally boils down to knowing the target's course and speed, right? The angle in the table is the one between the green and blue lines, correct? AKA the relative bearing of the ship at the moment the torp is fired.

08-20-07, 06:33 AM	#14
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Bad strategy This is a great way to hit multiple ships and watch them blithely sail over the horizon after you've wasted six torpedoes for no gain. Well, not exactly no gain. You'll be able to tell stories to your pals behind other desks after Admiral Lockwood reams you a new orfice. He has told you once that we attack ships, not convoys. Those who don't learn end up skippering a desk or cleaning out submarines as part of a turnaround crew in Pearl. One thing for sure: they never sail again. Too many skippers will listen and succeed to put up with those who take shortcuts and try to do business the easy way. "We sink ships in this Navy. We don't damage them. We get in close and hit each ship individually with multiple torpedoes using a proper spread. Don't even shoot if you're not targeting a single ship with intent to kill it. If you have time to target another single ship and kill it too, good. Otherwise pull out, do another end around and resume carnage. Look me in the eye and tell me this is understood. One more chance. Dismissed!" Damn, that Lockwood sure isn't flexible. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

08-20-07, 07:35 AM	#15
switch.dota Captain Join Date: May 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 492 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	In TM + NSM this is actually quite plausible if you fire 1/2/3 torps per small/med/large merchant. It's unlikely for the said vessel class to take more. Remember that if you get the angle right, this is almost like automatic targetting in that you hit EXACTLY where the periscope is pointing. In the same TM + NSM combination it's unlikely that anyone will be able to end-around an escorted convoy without wasting a lot of fuel.