'Let's call God Allah'

Von Tonner · 08-16-07, 03:54 AM

I could do along with this guy on the hungry stealing bread IF it was ONLY bread and a last resort between that and starvation. Condoms and aids is a given. But calling on Christians to call God Allah? I think that is pushing the envelope too far imo.

'Let's call God Allah' - Bishop
15/08/2007 23:05 - (SA)
The Hague - A Dutch Catholic bishop who once said the hungry were entitled to steal bread and advocated condom use to prevent Aids has made headlines again, this time by saying God should be called Allah.
"Allah is a very beautiful word for God. Shouldn't we all say that from now on we will call God Allah?" Bishop Tiny Muskens said in an interview broadcast this week. "God doesn't care what we call him."
In this nation where religious tolerance has been eroded in recent years by a rise in radical Islam, the comments drew little support.
Muskens, bishop of the southern Diocese of Breda, previously created a stir by suggesting the hungry could steal bread to feed themselves.
He also supported the use of condoms as a way of reining in the spread of Aids and suggested popes have term limits of 10-15 years and an age limit of 85.
In an interview broadcast on Monday's edition of current affairs show Netwerk, Muskens said he had worked in Indonesia where God is referred to as Allah in Christian services.
But a spokesperson for one of the capital's leading mosques said he was not happy with the statement.
"We didn't ask for this," a spokesperson for the Moroccan Mosque in Amsterdam told De Telegraaf. "Now it is as if we have a problem between Muslims and Christians."
Gerrit de Fijter, chairperson of the General Synod of the Dutch Protestant Church, also rejected Muskens' suggestion.
"I applaud every attempt to encourage dialogue with Muslims, but I doubt the sense of this manoeuvre," De Fijter told De Telegraaf.
Neither De Fijter nor Muslim community leaders returned calls seeking comment on Wednesday.
Speaking to a local television network on Wednesday, Muskens said he was pleased his comments had sparked debate.
"That they are interested in how to get along with God, that is a positive result," he told Omroep Brabant.

The Avon Lady · 08-16-07, 04:03 AM

That could have been posted on the "Goodbye Holland" thread.

Skybird · 08-16-07, 04:34 AM

Idiot.

joea · 08-16-07, 05:05 AM

Allah is just the Arabic word for God. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah
Arabic speaking Christians use the word, including Greek Orthodox as I ahve heard it used in the liturgy.

Of course it is a bit silly for Dutch speakers to use the word, I might as well call Him "Bog" (slavic) or well I use Dieu (when I speak French) or well "Theos"
Θεός in Greek. I understand what the bishop was trying to do, but I find it silly at best. I would not accept prayers for certain Catholic saints in the Orthdox Church even if I like their writings or admire them...nor do I expect Protestants to honour saints at all.

Reaves · 08-16-07, 05:10 AM

The Avon Lady · 08-16-07, 05:59 AM

From a mostly Christian perspective:

Is Allah God?

Allah: May This Arabic Name of God be used by Christians?

Which One God? Comparing the Muslim and Christian conceptions of God.

Also discussed a bit within this article:

Dhimmitude in the Augusta Free Press: "Jews and Christians are 'muslim'"

TteFAboB · 08-20-07, 09:07 PM

For the transcendental unity of religions to be effective each religion must maintain its sufficiency. Any attempt to force a merger will destroy the involved religions mutually contaminating one another, resulting in the absolute contrary of the intented goals. Or are they?

Madness or method? Method in madness?

Stealth Hunter · 08-20-07, 09:35 PM

"Allah" is just what WE call God. You call God... "God".

Let's simply make an international name for him and leave it at that so we won't have to suffer through any more of this religious BS mixed in with political shenanigans...

Skybird · 08-21-07, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

"Allah" is just what WE call God. You call God... "God".

Let's simply make an international name for him and leave it at that so we won't have to suffer through any more of this religious BS mixed in with political shenanigans...

Let's use Esperanto for that purpose. Side-effect: it makes the Vatican obsolete and turns the EU headquarter into the new Holy See.

clive bradbury · 08-21-07, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

"Allah" is just what WE call God. You call God... "God".

Let's simply make an international name for him and leave it at that so we won't have to suffer through any more of this religious BS mixed in with political shenanigans...

Call him whatever you like - he won't care - he doesn't exist...

joea · 08-21-07, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clive bradbury

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

"Allah" is just what WE call God. You call God... "God".

Let's simply make an international name for him and leave it at that so we won't have to suffer through any more of this religious BS mixed in with political shenanigans...

Call him whatever you like - he won't care - he doesn't exist...

IYO

but yea, water does exist and is the same whether you call it eau or voda or aqua. As Shakespeare put it "a rose by any other name..." just make sure y'all really talking about water and not one person beer (mmm beer) the other person cyanaide laced koolaid.

JetSnake · 08-25-07, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clive bradbury

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

"Allah" is just what WE call God. You call God... "God".

Let's simply make an international name for him and leave it at that so we won't have to suffer through any more of this religious BS mixed in with political shenanigans...

Call him whatever you like - he won't care - he doesn't exist...

Can't prove that can you.

Skybird · 08-26-07, 05:01 AM

Can't prove that he does exist, can you. so why is it more reasonable to believe in something unproven, unexamined, unchecked, untested? Is it really that much demanded that He shall give us a sign of existence if he expects us to worship him? I would call that a reasonable demand. Scepticism is no sin, but a prerequisite to develope true reason. Ancient scriptures just are not good enough and just records of hear-say and chinese whispers, buried under a lot of dust. Maybe good enough for some people, but certainly not good enough for me.

But honestly, an old man behaving as brutal and tyrannic and demanding submission in the way He does in the bible's old testament or Muhammad's files, is somebody that either is mentally ill and belongs into a psychiatric station (talking as an ex-psychologist here: we would enforce by court's ruling that every man behaving like that must be brought to hospital and prison if he behaves like He did), or probably is not real, but a product of human imagination. The OT is dripping with blood and cruelty and His selfishness and His narcisissm and sadism and war. And that humans are capable of all this brutality, tyranny and demands for submission is obvious and a well-proven historic fact.

Conclusion: He does not exist, but we can prove that we exist, can we.

The gods we imagine, tell something about man himself - not about the question wether there are gods, or none. If they are there, they can give us a hint that is undeniable. If they don't, they either are not there, or they do not care. If the latter, why running after them, then. I have more important things to do.

08-16-07, 03:54 AM	#1
Von Tonner Seasoned Skipper Join Date: May 2005 Location: South Africa Posts: 711 Downloads: 44 Uploads: 0	'Let's call God Allah' I could do along with this guy on the hungry stealing bread IF it was ONLY bread and a last resort between that and starvation. Condoms and aids is a given. But calling on Christians to call God Allah? I think that is pushing the envelope too far imo. 'Let's call God Allah' - Bishop 15/08/2007 23:05 - (SA) The Hague - A Dutch Catholic bishop who once said the hungry were entitled to steal bread and advocated condom use to prevent Aids has made headlines again, this time by saying God should be called Allah. "Allah is a very beautiful word for God. Shouldn't we all say that from now on we will call God Allah?" Bishop Tiny Muskens said in an interview broadcast this week. "God doesn't care what we call him." In this nation where religious tolerance has been eroded in recent years by a rise in radical Islam, the comments drew little support. Muskens, bishop of the southern Diocese of Breda, previously created a stir by suggesting the hungry could steal bread to feed themselves. He also supported the use of condoms as a way of reining in the spread of Aids and suggested popes have term limits of 10-15 years and an age limit of 85. In an interview broadcast on Monday's edition of current affairs show Netwerk, Muskens said he had worked in Indonesia where God is referred to as Allah in Christian services. But a spokesperson for one of the capital's leading mosques said he was not happy with the statement. "We didn't ask for this," a spokesperson for the Moroccan Mosque in Amsterdam told De Telegraaf. "Now it is as if we have a problem between Muslims and Christians." Gerrit de Fijter, chairperson of the General Synod of the Dutch Protestant Church, also rejected Muskens' suggestion. "I applaud every attempt to encourage dialogue with Muslims, but I doubt the sense of this manoeuvre," De Fijter told De Telegraaf. Neither De Fijter nor Muslim community leaders returned calls seeking comment on Wednesday. Speaking to a local television network on Wednesday, Muskens said he was pleased his comments had sparked debate. "That they are interested in how to get along with God, that is a positive result," he told Omroep Brabant.

08-16-07, 04:03 AM	#2
The Avon Lady Über Mom Join Date: May 2005 Location: Jerusalem, Israel Posts: 6,147 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	That could have been posted on the "Goodbye Holland" thread. __________________ "Victory will come to us from the wombs of our women." - Houari Boumedienne, President of Algeria, Speech before the UN, 1974

08-16-07, 04:34 AM	#3
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,802 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Idiot. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

08-16-07, 05:10 AM	#5
Reaves The Old Man Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,509 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	__________________

08-16-07, 05:59 AM	#6
The Avon Lady Über Mom Join Date: May 2005 Location: Jerusalem, Israel Posts: 6,147 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	From a mostly Christian perspective: Is Allah God? Allah: May This Arabic Name of God be used by Christians? Which One God? Comparing the Muslim and Christian conceptions of God. Also discussed a bit within this article: Dhimmitude in the Augusta Free Press: "Jews and Christians are 'muslim'" __________________ "Victory will come to us from the wombs of our women." - Houari Boumedienne, President of Algeria, Speech before the UN, 1974

08-16-07, 05:05 AM	#4
joea Silent Hunter Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: At periscope depth in Lake Geneva Posts: 3,512 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	Allah is just the Arabic word for God. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah Arabic speaking Christians use the word, including Greek Orthodox as I ahve heard it used in the liturgy. Of course it is a bit silly for Dutch speakers to use the word, I might as well call Him "Bog" (slavic) or well I use Dieu (when I speak French) or well "Theos" Θεός in Greek. I understand what the bishop was trying to do, but I find it silly at best. I would not accept prayers for certain Catholic saints in the Orthdox Church even if I like their writings or admire them...nor do I expect Protestants to honour saints at all.

08-20-07, 09:07 PM	#7
TteFAboB Admiral Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,247 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	For the transcendental unity of religions to be effective each religion must maintain its sufficiency. Any attempt to force a merger will destroy the involved religions mutually contaminating one another, resulting in the absolute contrary of the intented goals. Or are they? Madness or method? Method in madness? __________________ "Tout ce qui est exagéré est insignifiant." ("All that is exaggerated is insignificant.") - Talleyrand

08-20-07, 09:35 PM	#8
Stealth Hunter Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Y'ha-Nthlei Posts: 4,262 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	"Allah" is just what WE call God. You call God... "God". Let's simply make an international name for him and leave it at that so we won't have to suffer through any more of this religious BS mixed in with political shenanigans...

08-26-07, 05:01 AM	#13
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,802 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Can't prove that he does exist, can you. so why is it more reasonable to believe in something unproven, unexamined, unchecked, untested? Is it really that much demanded that He shall give us a sign of existence if he expects us to worship him? I would call that a reasonable demand. Scepticism is no sin, but a prerequisite to develope true reason. Ancient scriptures just are not good enough and just records of hear-say and chinese whispers, buried under a lot of dust. Maybe good enough for some people, but certainly not good enough for me. But honestly, an old man behaving as brutal and tyrannic and demanding submission in the way He does in the bible's old testament or Muhammad's files, is somebody that either is mentally ill and belongs into a psychiatric station (talking as an ex-psychologist here: we would enforce by court's ruling that every man behaving like that must be brought to hospital and prison if he behaves like He did), or probably is not real, but a product of human imagination. The OT is dripping with blood and cruelty and His selfishness and His narcisissm and sadism and war. And that humans are capable of all this brutality, tyranny and demands for submission is obvious and a well-proven historic fact. Conclusion: He does not exist, but we can prove that we exist, can we. The gods we imagine, tell something about man himself - not about the question wether there are gods, or none. If they are there, they can give us a hint that is undeniable. If they don't, they either are not there, or they do not care. If the latter, why running after them, then. I have more important things to do. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.