Poland vs. Germany

[dean_acheson]

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23401261-details/We'd+have+more+power+in+EU+if+Germans+hadn't+'redu ced+our+population'+in+World+War+II%2C+says+Polish +PM/article.do

whoa! Hows this for PC?

[bradclark1]

Germany is trying to get volunteers to go to Poland and be Polish so that they can give back.

[AntEater]

What did you expect from the idiot twins?
One of the two still lives with his mother at 50 something, but I am not sure wether it is this one or the other.
They simply have a pathological hatred for everything german.
For my part, I think we should reconsider our policies towards Poland. It has no use to extend the hand in friendship and get spit in the face in return.
At least until the poles vote these morons out of office, that is.
Official Poland nowadays tries very hard to beat the muslim world in being insulted by just about everything.

[Skybird]

These two twins surely are human carricatures, and the ammount of nationalism they try to stir amongst Polish people should not be underestimated. However, during the last election only less than 30% participated, so one should not assume that they are too representative for their people. In no way they are representing a majority. Maybe not more than 20%. On a private, inter-human level, relations between Polish and Germans for the most are good, when ignoring that ultranationalistic parts of the Polish press did not hesitate to compare Merkel with Hitler, or Germany and Russia planning to crush Poland again, amongst other "jokes".

This argument about compensation for WWII is totally crap and nonsens, and makes me telling them they should not go to a summit, but seek therapy to learn how to come over the fate of their parents during WWII. Every sympathy for personal experiences has limits, and they are seriously stressing diplomatic relations to Germany. If two men's broken psyche is translated into a whole natiopn'S policy, than this is doing bad for that nation only, and for all others it is unacceptable, and a huge problem.

While I am no fan of the twins, they nevertheless could serve Europe a good service if bringing down this damn treaty paper altogether, same is true of Blair. I really hope this treaty get's prevented, there are so many issues in it that I do not accept at all and that are highly questionable, that I think no treaty is much better than this very bad and dangerous treaty.

And finally, although their arguments are silly and stupid, the twin's attempt to weaken the influence of nations with great populations and strengthen the smaller ones may come out to be of value if eventually Turkey should become an EU member, because then Turkey wouldn't have so very much influence (being the nation with the by far greatest population in the EU). Best would be if Turkey doesn't join at all, of course.

So I really hope this damn treaty fails. Not by conviction, but for pure pragmatism I support both Blair and the twins. Call it "Realpolitik" and pragmatism. The earlier this farce is ended, the better. The age of feudal lords and absolutism, where people only have the freedom to follow the leader's commands, are over. Even Merkel must accept that the constitution was rejected by two important nations. Trying to call it back to life with it's core proposals unchanged reveals a very criminal interpretation of "democracy" and "all power comes from the people". You can't repeat votings, or referendums, or decision processes as often as you need until you get the outcome you want to see, and call that "democratic". And if it is said that the grown Europe needs reforms to function on, then one must question why one even did allow it to grow to a club of 27 now. It was difficult enough with 6, it already was almost impossible with 15 members - 27 member means that it will not be functioning in a democartic manner anyway. such a choire can only sing in harmony if a superior conductor puts it under according pressure. There is a reason why all "functioning" multicultural societies in history - were no democracies, but tyrannies with strong centralised, absolutistic powers, from Rome over Austria to the Soviet Union to Yugoslawia. when the central powers failed and faded, the thing broke apart again and the ethnical and cultural diversities turned hostile again.

Multiculturalism does not work with freedom and democracy.

Merkel makes compromises. Many compromises, much of them. Far too many, if judging it by innerpolitical events. The great coalition is aiming at setting a new record concenring producing foul compromises. She did like that in Heiligendamm, and tried to sell that at home as great diplomatic successes. She will try endless compromises in the EU negotations, too. considerign that sometimes the price is simply too high, I am nervous about the outcome of this meeting. I hope that Blair and or the polish twins let it collapse.

[AntEater]

I am not a great fan of the new EU treaty either, but that issue transcends realpolitik

The twin morons are fanatics, and their prime agenda is not some EU politics, but rather weakening Germany.
You can't make realpolitik with mindless fanatics and those two have no further agenda than to hurt Germany wherever they can.
At least they're too weak to do any real damage.
There's no political agenda behind them burt simple raw hatred for Germany, that means in the long term, for you and me. We can do whatever we want, Skybird, in the long term, for those people we're just the enemy, and so they should be for us.
Israel wouldnt do short-term alliances with the Hamas either, whatever the long term benefit.

You see that on many levels. The current govermnent bans Goethe and even Grass (who's definitely pro polish) from schools and replaces them with nationalist literature. They stop german-polish youth exchanges.
Simply put, they want to breed hate for anything german in the younger generation.

The only good thing is that only a minority of the younger poles seem to share that agenda.
Personally I know a bunch of poles and I never had any problems with them.
I suppose this is a generation problem and will solve itself in time. But until that, Germany should adopt a harsh stance against Poland wherever possible.

I see the EU as a great free trade zone. I'm not sure why all the trappings of gov't is needed.? Is there something broken?

[Letum]