Carotio, a theif!

WilhelmSchulz. · 05-12-07, 01:30 PM

From a thread on UBI.

Quote:

I work on joining WAC and GWX! Whether it was appearing as GWX-TA1.3 or as independant supermod

Thats no better than Seawolves and XI software!

CCIP · 05-12-07, 01:36 PM

I'm not quite sure what you mean. :hmm:

Noone, so far as I'm aware, has prohibited any independent project on joining mods, with due credit etc.

WilhelmSchulz. · 05-12-07, 01:42 PM

yes but the "independant supermod" thing thats the punchy part.

joea · 05-12-07, 01:52 PM

Indeed, will he give credit for the other's work? I saw it already btw.

Carotio · 05-12-07, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joea

Indeed, will he give credit for the other's work? I saw it already btw.

In my GWX-TA, I have made credits to original developers, and this would be the case for WU as well!

Jimbuna · 05-12-07, 04:11 PM

Not feckin again!!

Some people appear to be happy when they know they're as popular as a fart in a spacesuit

I only wish we could hard code the mods and put a stop to this madness

danlisa · 05-12-07, 01:53 PM

I think the problem stems from the fact that, rather than making changes to files and then distributing them as a JSGME or exe package, he's taking the entirety of said mod packages, making changes and re-releasing it as a complete supermod.

At least this is what he has done to date, with (as far as I know) no permission obtained from the creators of the original work.

Regardless of credit given, this is 'poaching' off other peoples hard work.

You could argue that any modder working from UBI files should do the same, but blah blah blah. We heard that before.

What we are talking about is 'modders etiquette' within the community. He has shown none.

Penelope_Grey · 05-12-07, 01:59 PM

GWX uses several stand alone Mods as part of the overall package, with credit given...

Serious question: Did the GWX team go to each and every creator of the stand alone mods and ask for permission to use them in the GWX Supermod? Is it practical or even possible to do that?

EDIT: I am not trying to be funny and awkward, just I cannot see what the harm is in using what exists to make something else for people to enjoy? If credit is given and acknowledgement of origins where is the trouble? I genuinely don't understand how what is happening is so terrible.

danlisa · 05-12-07, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

GWX uses several stand alone Mods as part of the overall package, with credit given...

Did the GWX team go to each and every creator of the stand alone mods and ask for permission to use them in the GWX Supermod?

There's only 1 man who can answer that with any certainty but I will venture a guess that they did.

Ether that or the owners of the standalone mod were asked to join the GWX Dev team to help them incorporate it into GWX.

Besides, GWX has not taken an already established supermod added a few changes and then re-released the entire thing as their own work.

EDIT - Just seen your edit.

There would probably no issue with this, if a JSGME/EXE package was created to add Carotio's changes to someones install of GWX/WAC but what he is doing is using entire supermods and re-distributing them. To me and many others, that is plagerism. If he is going to create a supermod, he must start from scratch with his own files & research. You will probably find that the majority of time it took for GWX to be ready for release was taken up with research & testing (at least 75%), Carotio has done none of this. Example, the torp tweaks I made you, what if I made the tweaks and said that you had to d/l the entire supermod again.

A bit extreme but similar to this situation.

Tuddley3 · 05-12-07, 02:50 PM

Carotio has NEVER taken credit for others work. Have you not read his Read Me file. No of course not, because no one has downloaded his work. In fact, he even states so on his website. He just used GWX as a platform to use his "Tweaks", which is all the were, just tweaks.

Carotio · 05-12-07, 04:31 PM

[quote=danlisa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

EDIT - Just seen your edit.

There would probably no issue with this, if a JSGME/EXE package was created to add Carotio's changes to someones install of GWX/WAC

GWX-TA was/is exactly that! Tweaks on top of GWX!

Quote:

but what he is doing is using entire supermods and re-distributing them.

What's the difference of including a small mod in GWX/WAC and a part/parts of a supermod like GWX/WAC in another mod?
None!

Quote:

To me and many others, that is plagerism.

Only if they appear exactly the same!

Quote:

If he is going to create a supermod, he must start from scratch with his own files & research.

That's of course your right to have that opinion! Some things will be/are done from scratch, but some will be taken from other mods!

Quote:

You will probably find that the majority of time it took for GWX to be ready for release was taken up with research & testing (at least 75%), Carotio has done none of this.

How do you know this? Have you lived under my bed for the last year or two? I have done some research and testing too!

Carotio · 05-12-07, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danlisa

I think the problem stems from the fact that, rather than making changes to files and then distributing them as a JSGME or exe package, he's taking the entirety of said mod packages, making changes and re-releasing it as a complete supermod.

This was not done with GWX-TA, neither GW-UA!
WU will contain from WAC and GWX, what I find interesting! But it's not necessarily the entire package! The size will still be big, but it will not contain everything! Just as WAC or GWX don't contain everything!

Quote:

At least this is what he has done to date, with (as far as I know) no permission obtained from the creators of the original work.

Partly true, partly not true! It's true that I have not asked all and one modder to permit my tweaks, some people just don't answer me, when I send them a PM! How is the normal reaction, when people ignore a person? Exactly, one would do the same to them! But that doesn't me that I don't write a credit to them in the readme file!

Quote:

Regardless of credit given, this is 'poaching' off other peoples hard work.

One may feel so, but one shouldn't!

Quote:

You could argue that any modder working from UBI files should do the same, but blah blah blah. We heard that before.

What we are talking about is 'modders etiquette' within the community. He has shown none.

Wrong! I show some by crediting! I just don't fall to my knees and beg for permission! But we have all been through this before: some find the begging necessary, I don't! I admit it and apologize for it! But accept the fact, when you release some freeware on the internet, it's freeware! It will be used sooner or later, also one day, when none of us is around anymore...
So I credit, and that's it! Sorry!

Carotio · 05-12-07, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WilhelmSchulz.

From a thread on UBI.

Quote:

I work on joining WAC and GWX! Whether it was appearing as GWX-TA1.3 or as independant supermod

Thats no better than Seawolves and XI software!

Theft is made for personal profit!

I do not do this for personal profit or glory to myself!

GWX-TA was/is a tweak mod and adding mod for GWX!
My intention to create WU is not to take any glory away from GWX, but I have frequently been accused for trying to steal the glory of GWX by making my tweaks, which was never the intention!
Giving this new supermod a total new name is only to make the difference more clear! And no, it will not appear at some software company later on! It will appear as a free download, just as GWX-TA was/is.

05-12-07, 01:36 PM	#2
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	I'm not quite sure what you mean. :hmm: Noone, so far as I'm aware, has prohibited any independent project on joining mods, with due credit etc. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

05-12-07, 01:42 PM	#3
WilhelmSchulz. The Old Man Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Virgina Beach Posts: 1,301 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	yes but the "independant supermod" thing thats the punchy part. __________________ "Some ships are designed to sink… others require our assistance."

05-12-07, 04:11 PM	#6
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,610 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Not feckin again!! Some people appear to be happy when they know they're as popular as a fart in a spacesuit I only wish we could hard code the mods and put a stop to this madness __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

05-12-07, 01:53 PM	#7
danlisa Navy Seal Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Cornwall, UK Posts: 5,499 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 1	I think the problem stems from the fact that, rather than making changes to files and then distributing them as a JSGME or exe package, he's taking the entirety of said mod packages, making changes and re-releasing it as a complete supermod. At least this is what he has done to date, with (as far as I know) no permission obtained from the creators of the original work. Regardless of credit given, this is 'poaching' off other peoples hard work. You could argue that any modder working from UBI files should do the same, but blah blah blah. We heard that before. What we are talking about is 'modders etiquette' within the community. He has shown none. __________________

05-12-07, 01:59 PM	#8
Penelope_Grey Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: UK Posts: 1,893 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	GWX uses several stand alone Mods as part of the overall package, with credit given... Serious question: Did the GWX team go to each and every creator of the stand alone mods and ask for permission to use them in the GWX Supermod? Is it practical or even possible to do that? EDIT: I am not trying to be funny and awkward, just I cannot see what the harm is in using what exists to make something else for people to enjoy? If credit is given and acknowledgement of origins where is the trouble? I genuinely don't understand how what is happening is so terrible. __________________ I SURVIVED THE FIRST EVER SUBSIM WEREWOLF HUNT - and... I actually won the game for the humans too! Last edited by Penelope_Grey; 05-12-07 at 02:11 PM.

05-12-07, 01:52 PM	#4
joea Silent Hunter Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: At periscope depth in Lake Geneva Posts: 3,512 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	Indeed, will he give credit for the other's work? I saw it already btw.

05-12-07, 02:50 PM	#10
Tuddley3 Grey Wolf Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Augusta, Maine USA Posts: 905 Downloads: 170 Uploads: 0	Carotio has NEVER taken credit for others work. Have you not read his Read Me file. No of course not, because no one has downloaded his work. In fact, he even states so on his website. He just used GWX as a platform to use his "Tweaks", which is all the were, just tweaks.