Okhotsk sea? Anyone patrolling there?

humesdog · 04-28-07, 12:03 PM

Just finished Thunder Below! about the USS Barb and I was fascinated to read about some interesting patrols she had up north in the Okhotsk sea. Some odd meteorological conditions there would cause ships too appear way out of normal visual range, sometimes as far away as 45,000 yards. The commander would notice his men were actually pointing their binoculars below the horizon searching for ships. I know this isn't modelled in SH4 but it would be interesting nonetheless.

C-4 · 04-28-07, 10:24 PM

That doesn't sound right. Are you sure the good lookouts didn't make a mistake with the stadimeter?

marky · 04-28-07, 10:27 PM

well japanese lookouts on DDs and cruisers could spot ships at 20000 yards range

even at NIGHT

tedhealy · 04-28-07, 11:14 PM

I'm reading the same book (it's very good by the way). Just as humesdog says, due to atmospheric conditions Fluckey reported many mirages while in the Okhotsk. From gigantic icebergs seen from a distance that when closed on weren't there to ships that were somehow seen well beyond normal visual range.

humesdog · 04-28-07, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C-4

That doesn't sound right. Are you sure the good lookouts didn't make a mistake with the stadimeter?

Yes, you're absolutely right. It doesn't sound right. I had to re-read that part in the book several times to comprehend what was going on. But as tedhealy backed me up yes, there were some strange goings-on in the okhotsk according to Fluckey. I wonder who here has any scientific perspective of what was happening. I can only guess that light bounced off of atmospheric interference in the northern latitudes and you could visibly see beyond the 19 mile limit imposed by the curvature of the earth.

Camaero · 04-28-07, 11:34 PM

That sounds very interesting! I have been patroling just outside of the Okhotsk Sea, but I haven't really gone in yet.

nattydread · 04-29-07, 12:19 AM

Mu understanding is that the light was bent due to atmospheric temperture layers...sound familiar. I bet at one time, someone said it didnt sound right that sound was bending and cause anomalies in sound projection under water due to themal layers...but we know that is the case now, we look for those thermal layers to save our hides everyday in game.

Well we all know that when you look in a pond at a fish that the fish isnt really where you see it. We know light bends when it enters water due to changes in density between the air and the water. The surface of the water acts like a thermacline bending light just like the thermacline in water between two layers of water with dramtic differences in temperature and density bends sound.

Well both water and air our fluids (not to be confused with liquids). When you get layers of air with dramatic changes in temperature and density you get the same effect as a thermal layer. Keep in mind that thermal layers dont just make it hard to be heard, they can also make it easier to be heard a longer ranges than normal through a tunnel or tube effect. This same effect theoritically could exist in the atmosphere allowing one to see objects from farther way than normal. I believe its called an atmospheric lense. The cool thing is gravity can do it too, black holes have been known to bend light allowing telescopes to see objects much farther than they ought to. I think thats called a gravitational lense...though it doenst work exactly the same way, it works on different principles.

04-28-07, 12:03 PM	#1
humesdog Seaman Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 40 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	Okhotsk sea? Anyone patrolling there? Just finished Thunder Below! about the USS Barb and I was fascinated to read about some interesting patrols she had up north in the Okhotsk sea. Some odd meteorological conditions there would cause ships too appear way out of normal visual range, sometimes as far away as 45,000 yards. The commander would notice his men were actually pointing their binoculars below the horizon searching for ships. I know this isn't modelled in SH4 but it would be interesting nonetheless.

04-28-07, 11:34 PM	#6
Camaero The Old Man Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: USA, Massachusetts Posts: 1,477 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	That sounds very interesting! I have been patroling just outside of the Okhotsk Sea, but I haven't really gone in yet. __________________

04-28-07, 10:24 PM	#2
C-4 Watch Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Somewhere in the universe Posts: 30 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	That doesn't sound right. Are you sure the good lookouts didn't make a mistake with the stadimeter?

04-28-07, 11:14 PM	#4
tedhealy Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: St. Louis, MO, USA Posts: 772 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	I'm reading the same book (it's very good by the way). Just as humesdog says, due to atmospheric conditions Fluckey reported many mirages while in the Okhotsk. From gigantic icebergs seen from a distance that when closed on weren't there to ships that were somehow seen well beyond normal visual range.

04-29-07, 12:19 AM	#7
nattydread Captain Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 498 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Mu understanding is that the light was bent due to atmospheric temperture layers...sound familiar. I bet at one time, someone said it didnt sound right that sound was bending and cause anomalies in sound projection under water due to themal layers...but we know that is the case now, we look for those thermal layers to save our hides everyday in game. Well we all know that when you look in a pond at a fish that the fish isnt really where you see it. We know light bends when it enters water due to changes in density between the air and the water. The surface of the water acts like a thermacline bending light just like the thermacline in water between two layers of water with dramtic differences in temperature and density bends sound. Well both water and air our fluids (not to be confused with liquids). When you get layers of air with dramatic changes in temperature and density you get the same effect as a thermal layer. Keep in mind that thermal layers dont just make it hard to be heard, they can also make it easier to be heard a longer ranges than normal through a tunnel or tube effect. This same effect theoritically could exist in the atmosphere allowing one to see objects from farther way than normal. I believe its called an atmospheric lense. The cool thing is gravity can do it too, black holes have been known to bend light allowing telescopes to see objects much farther than they ought to. I think thats called a gravitational lense...though it doenst work exactly the same way, it works on different principles.