Some thoughts from one of the mainstream

[boadle]

On a regular basis, I pick up the latest 'hardcore' sim from Game, and plan to invest several months in it, and immerse myself in the atmosphere, knowing that this is 'as real as it gets'.

I've picked up all three previous versions of SH with this intention, as well as MS Flight Simulator et al.

However, my good intentions often fall away after a few hours, and I revert to World War II Online, or Stalker, or even BF 2. The reason for this is generally what I perceive as a lack of 'humanity'. With SH, The technical stuff is great, and the sense of poring over nautical maps, and the radio stuff, and the attention to detail; all highly commendable, and I know your current 'hardcore' audience lap this stuff up.

My issue with SH 1 - 4, and the major stumbling block to 'mainstream' gamers, I feel, whose only real exposure to Submarine fare is The Hunt for Red October, Das Boot etc, is the lack of human interest.

The modelled characters go some way to addressing this, and were badly needed, but the game is crying out for enemy sailors abandoning ship, clambering into life jackets, drowning in their metal coffins. I need to see the effect of my aggression on real people, and I need to see the effect of my enemies, on my crew. I need to see men scambling around my boat, putting out fires, scalded by jets of steam, even bringing me cups of coffee and telling me how much they miss their girl back home.

Why can't I walk around my boat? Maybe the next iteration should be fully First Person?

We want to feel like we are Sean Connery, not just some trigonometry machine.

I work in the games industry (Free Radical - boy, have we got some crackers in the works for FPS fans), so I am aware of the cost (in financial, and human resource terms) of character modelling, rigging and texturing, of motion capture sessions and voice acting. However, I feel that in order to capture the elusive mainstream, SH and the ilk need to address this aspect.

Other that this, your game looks great. Congrats.

[joea]

Well that's not really the crowd at this forum. Those are 2 very different markets you're talking about here.

[AirborneTD]

SH4 has made some advances in these areas. There are lifeboats and crews on decks of ships. I would like to see more movement inside my sub and to have freedom to move in different compartments. I really enjoy this sim for what it is--with the modders help of course.

[maerean_m]

sailors abandoning ship, clambering into life jackets, drowning in their metal coffins. I need to see the effect of my aggression on real people, and I need to see the effect of my enemies, on my crew. I need to see men scambling around my boat, putting out fires, scalded by jets of steam, even bringing me cups of coffee and telling me how much they miss their girl back home.

The game is not allowed to let you see the full effect of your aggression because the ESRB and PEGI ratings that won't allow the people to buy the game, not even those that bought it now.

In the beta stage there were people blown away by explosions and people drowning in the water, but they all had to be removed.

[boadle]

Originally Posted by maerean_m

The game is not allowed to let you see the full effect of your aggression because the ESRB and PEGI ratings that won't allow the people to buy the game, not even those that bought it now.

In the beta stage there were people blown away by explosions and people drowning in the water, but they all had to be removed.

Wow. What a shame. Bizarre that the respectives committees see a respectful simulation more harmful than 'Bully' or 'Manhunt'. I suspect that the boards warned the developers that the rating would need to change to include these features, and the developers weren't prepared to do that.

Originally Posted by pasharr

Boadle you little sneak! Gettin onto here! IF you have SH3 you should invest some time in the GWX mod. It brings that game to life. I expect the same will happen for SH4 eventually

Um hi? Have we met? Had a look at the GWX mod. Looks pretty cool. Love the dolphins. Will check it out.

[mookiemookie]

I'd rather they invested their time in gameplay and simulation aspects rather than crewmen bringing me coffee, which may be cute to see once or twice but would become annoying after a while. With limited time and budget constraints, I'm thinking that they should focus on the more important parts of the sim.

But that's just my opinion and I could be wrong.

[boadle]

Originally Posted by joea

Well that's not really the crowd at this forum. Those are 2 very different markets you're talking about here.

My impression, Joea, is that the developers of SH4 are trying to position their product to move at least somewhat into the mainstream.

[pasharr]

Boadle you little sneak! Gettin onto here! IF you have SH3 you should invest some time in the GWX mod. It brings that game to life. I expect the same will happen for SH4 eventually.

[nattydread]

Woohoo, WWIIOnline is the still my #1 game. The only reason I got into WWII subs and subs in general was because of WWIIOnline. It is the furture of multiplayer war sims. Thoug hits far away from getting subs, my intention has always to develop my sub skills so one day I can use them in WWIIOnline in the most "realistic" combat environment available.

The thing that still causes me to eventually drift from these single player sims and severally limited "battle in a bottle" multipler engagments is the limited scope and redundancy they both eventually devolve into. Only until devs invest time and resources into a 24hr persistent combat theater environment will these sims have lasting appeal for me as WWIIOnline has.

I'd gladly pay $12-15 a month for years to have that type of gameplay like I do with WWIIOnline. They have gotten their monthly subscription from me for over 6yrs now and will continue too, even if I dont play for a few months. Why? because I believe in their vision and I know if they die that game style and vision dies with them. Those guys slave away like no other and that devotion on their part is reciprocated by my support financially and in admiration.

[swash]

Originally Posted by nattydread

Woohoo, WWIIOnline is the still my #1 game. The only reason I got into WWII subs and subs in general was because of WWIIOnline. It is the furture of multiplayer war sims. Thoug hits far away from getting subs, my intention has always to develop my sub skills so one day I can use them in WWIIOnline in the most "realistic" combat environment available.

The thing that still causes me to eventually drift from these single player sims and severally limited "battle in a bottle" multipler engagments is the limited scope and redundancy they both eventually devolve into. Only until devs invest time and resources into a 24hr persistent combat theater environment will these sims have lasting appeal for me as WWIIOnline has.

I'd gladly pay $12-15 a month for years to have that type of gameplay like I do with WWIIOnline. They have gotten their monthly subscription from me for over 6yrs now and will continue too, even if I dont play for a few months. Why? because I believe in their vision and I know if they die that game style and vision dies with them. Those guys slave away like no other and that devotion on their part is reciprocated by my support financially and in admiration.

I doubt there will ever be subs in ww2ol

On topic, I really wish the convoy vessels would pick up some of the lifeboats. Less contact reports that way

[Herr Karl]

That's too bad the more mature content had to be left out due to rating restrictions.

Maybe an option to enable mature content and a dual rating system?..i.e. T/M?

Just thinking out loud....

[nattydread]

Originally Posted by swash

I doubt there will ever be subs in ww2ol

On topic, I really wish the convoy vessels would pick up some of the lifeboats. Less contact reports that way

gotta keep hope alive! Im done hijacking