Early war escorts have radar enabled!!

[jhelix70]

This finding stems from the threads I began in the main forum and one about enemy sensors here in the mod forum. Basically I and others have noticed that Japanese escorts were spotting you first, way before you spot them. This is easily observable in the photo recon quick mission. Two destroyers guarding the entrance to the bay come beelining toward you well before they should have spotted you. The low profile of your sub should result in you spotting them first, not the other way around.

One idea I had was that the escorts were actually using radar. This would be nonhistorical because I believe Japanese escorts didn't get radar until very late, say 1945. The photo recon mission takes place in 1943.

I tested things in the photo recon quick mission. I first decided to test the radar theory, to get that out of the way, by altering the sim.cfg file. To my horror, by changing the [radar] Enemy surface factor (defines how much surface area must be presented to the sensor in order for detection) from 5 to 50000, normal behavior was restored. Now I spot the destroyers first, and they are on their normal patrol routes.

One important thing we have to determine is if this mistake just affects the missions, or do all Japanese escorts have radar in the campaign? I'm not sure how to look for that, but its disasterous for realism if they do.

In any case, you can bork the enemy radar by dramatically increasing the Enemy surface factor in the sim.cfg file. The disadvantage is that later in the war some escorts maybe should have primitive radar. But certainly not in '42-'43. In fact, "American experts placed Japan "four or five years behind" the United States in the development of radar."

[tater]

I think the eqp on the ships (or the improvements over time) can be altered. Escorts should not get surface radar til '44.

[jmjohnson36]

I have not seen any thing for radar in the eqp. file but if it is...ITS AN EASY FIX...I mod ships all the time...got an idea what Im looking for ?

[tater]

Actually, it's in for each ship by date under their sns file (Sea/Shipname/Shipname.sns).

So you can set the dates the sensors appear, or you can set them to NULL.

What TYPE of escort did you think had radar? I've checked a few and they are 1944. The type 13 radar is air search (very common, over 1000 built), and the type 21 is surface search. All the type 21s in game seem to happen in November 1944. I think that most escorts probably shouldn't have it, even then. Course the type 22 was made in more numbers, so they probably use the 21 as a general surface search radar. Problem is that it was installed here and there, not all ships got it.

Eeew, look at this:

[Sensor 9]
NodeName=R01
LinkName=NULL
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19421001

[Sensor 10]
NodeName=R01
LinkName=Type13
StartDate=19421001
EndDate=19441101

[Sensor 11]
NodeName=R01
LinkName=Type21
StartDate=19441101
EndDate=19451201

R01 is the spot for "radar." Sop far so good. The start and end dates are the same, so the ship has no radar til october 1942, then it gets type 13, then it gets type 21. Here is the possible problem. The type 13 is ONLY air search. The type 21 does both. So we need to look at the stuff for the 2 types, if they allow the type 13 to do surface stuff, that needs to change.

Note that a very common (in GAME) escort is the Akizuki, the one DD least likely to escort anything but warships in RL. It has radar in 1942, 1 year before any ships had radar in the IJN. So does Asashio. Checking others. All those type 13 radars need the earliest date to be March 1943, though it would have gone to BBs, then CA, and then lesser types. Late 43 would make more sense, or at least late in the summer.

[tater]

OK, looked at the tweaker stuff. What does "MinSurface =" mean in there? it is set to 1.5 for both the type 13 AND the type 21.

[jhelix70]

good question, I'll have a look at the "fixing the radar" thread and see if they explain it.

Since air radar on enemy escorts hardly effects gameplay it might be safest to disable it entirely.

[Mraah]

Originally Posted by tater

OK, looked at the tweaker stuff. What does "MinSurface =" mean in there? it is set to 1.5 for both the type 13 AND the type 21.

What's the name of the file you're tweaking? I can't locate the names.

thanks

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by tater

OK, looked at the tweaker stuff. What does "MinSurface =" mean in there? it is set to 1.5 for both the type 13 AND the type 21.

How high the radar beam sits off the surface of the water. (also adjustable by MinHeight if i remember correctly)

In SH3 we had a broad range of radar, all the way down to 3 cm radar. So the min surface would be 0.03. That radar i hated with a fervant passion. 1.5 meters means it wont detect your periscoope unless its out of the water more then 1.5 meters.

[jhelix70]

Escorts should not get surface radar til '44.

Agreed. I think summer '44 is probably about right.

Thanks for doing some digging Tater. I just know at the very least the destroyers in the 1943 photo recon mission have it. I think they were Akazuki class. Maybe we just need to adjust a few dates.

There is also the possibility of air radar showing ship contacts, since in the game the US radar is screwy too.