Binocular view problem?

[panthercules]

Been reading the forums here for a couple of weeks waiting for my copy to get here - seen lots of posts about various bugs, problems and quirks, but don't remember seeing any mention of the problem I ran into as soon as I fired up my copy this afternoon. Sorry if this has been posted before and I just missed it.

Anyway, as you can see from the screenshot below, when I try to use the binoculars on the bridge both my watch crew and the superstructure get in my way, instead of going invisible like they did in SH3:



I read through the manual, and didn't see anything about this being some sort of feature you could turn on or off, but maybe I missed something. Obviously, it's impossible to scan the horizon for ships or the sky for planes with this going on - anybody got any idea what could be causing this or how to fix it?

Running US DVD version patched to 1.1, with the following mods:

360 degree bearing plotter Imperial
Captain Midnights CBS NEWS Sound Mod
Dark Sil tga's for SH4
GreenLamp
Run Silent Run Deep Sound MOD.SPAX
SH4 Realistic Battery Life
Smaller_Moon_Sun_v1
ParaB's tweaked air strikes
Real Medals v1.01

Thanks for any help you can give - game looks interesting so far - still tweaking graphics settings and stuff to find the best compromise but need to sort this binocular view issue for sure before doing any patrols.

[clayton]

Good point! And since you cannot maneuver on the watch deck, a necessary one.

[LZ_Baker]

Yup, thats a big problem, especially with the layout of some of the towers.

[panthercules]

Originally Posted by LZ_Baker

Yup, thats a big problem, especially with the layout of some of the towers.

LOL - I'll say it's a big problem. So nobody has a solution to this issue?

Let me see - based on what I've seen and read so far:

1. you can't use the binoculars on the bridge to approach or attack on the surface;

2. you can't avoid the "monolith of FPS death" or whatever they're calling the anomaly that turns the game into a slideshow when you try to look in certain directions (didn't see the monolith itself but I sure did experience the total loss of FPS in the navigation tutorial where I discovered the binoculars thing);

3. you can't reliably conduct submerged attacks using manual targeting because the TDC doesn't work correctly half the time;

4. you can't even enjoy the external camera views of your boat because even though the graphics seem to hold great promise in some respects, without FSAA the jaggies are so bad you spend all your time wondering why you bought that $400-$500 video card...

:hmm: Not sure what else you're really supposed to do in a sub sim - I knew there were issues from reading the forums, but I really hoped I'd at least be able to load it up and play around with it a little to learn the controls and features and stuff while waiting for the next patch (after all, it took them until patch 1.4 to get SH3 really good and stable). However, as much as I hate to be negative, this is pretty much unplayable (for me anyway) in its current state. I hope the devs can hurry up and patch this thing up to something respectable, 'cause there seems to be a lot of potential here for a really fine game if they get it together. In the meantime, I guess it's back to SH3 to explore the latest NYGM and GWX for a bit.

[OneTinSoldier]

While the Binoc view is a little bit of a pain, you can just use the TBT instead. With the TBT view you get exactly what you got in SH3, an invisible conn tower and crew giving you an unobstructed 360 degree view.

I do wish that they hade made 4 or 5 spots to stand in that can be quickly toggled forwards and backwards. Perhaps they consider adding it in a future patch? At any rate, the TBT works for me.

[AVGWarhawk]

I had noticed but it was not a big bother. Use the TBT. What would be nice if you could move to the other watches positions but you can't. You can however get close ups of the crew. I had a red headed watchman and in the binoc view I could see his freckles and he had a pimple to boot . They recuite young these days.

[ryuzu]

Originally Posted by panthercules

LOL - I'll say it's a big problem. So nobody has a solution to this issue?

Let me see - based on what I've seen and read so far:

1. you can't use the binoculars on the bridge to approach or attack on the surface;

I've used the binocs to approach on the surface - no problem that I'm aware of.

Originally Posted by panthercules

2. you can't avoid the "monolith of FPS death" or whatever they're calling the anomaly that turns the game into a slideshow when you try to look in certain directions (didn't see the monolith itself but I sure did experience the total loss of FPS in the navigation tutorial where I discovered the binoculars thing);

This can be avoided by turning off the Environmental Effects for now. You lose fog (and see through crew men) but you gain FPS. That fixed it for me (and it was a fairly rare event albeit extremely irritating).

Originally Posted by panthercules

3. you can't reliably conduct submerged attacks using manual targeting because the TDC doesn't work correctly half the time;

There are some issues with the TDC but nothing that should stop you putting in a decent performance with it (assuming you use it correctly - that requires a bit of readnig and experimenting just like the real thing).

Originally Posted by panthercules

4. you can't even enjoy the external camera views of your boat because even though the graphics seem to hold great promise in some respects, without FSAA the jaggies are so bad you spend all your time wondering why you bought that $400-$500 video card...

Graphics ..... in a sim - who cares? Wrong genre for that....

Originally Posted by panthercules

:hmm: Not sure what else you're really supposed to do in a sub sim - I knew there were issues from reading the forums, but I really hoped I'd at least be able to load it up and play around with it a little to learn the controls and features and stuff while waiting for the next patch (after all, it took them until patch 1.4 to get SH3 really good and stable). However, as much as I hate to be negative, this is pretty much unplayable (for me anyway) in its current state. I hope the devs can hurry up and patch this thing up to something respectable, 'cause there seems to be a lot of potential here for a really fine game if they get it together. In the meantime, I guess it's back to SH3 to explore the latest NYGM and GWX for a bit.

From your description, itr seems like you've just heard all those problems repeated by others rather than tried them out for yourself to see how much of an issue they really are. There is rather a lot of disinformation going around about SH4 at the moment.

You said "what else is there to do in a sub sim" - well there is rather a lot but it is not modelled in SH4 regardless. The problems you listed are relatively minor in gameplay terms given SH4 as it stands.

EDIT : BTW I can't see what the problem is with the crew and tower - you couldn't see through them in real life, so why here. Moving around the tower would be the right solution - an invisible crew is just covering up one problem with another. I'd rather keep it as it is and let the crew do at least one useful thing on the boat.

r.

[panthercules]

Originally Posted by ryuzu

I've used the binocs to approach on the surface - no problem that I'm aware of.

Well, I like to be able to sweep the horizon with the binocs while I'm trying to make my end-around to reach position for my approach to the target - if 50% or more of the horizon is blocked by crew heads and superstructure while in binocs view, then this isn't really possible. Using the TBT as someone else suggested may be an acceptable workaround for now - I'll try it, but if it's essentially like using the UZO in SH3 then it won't really be the same thing, especially in darkness or near-darkness conditions when all the extra HUD elements on the UZO screen tended to make it really hard to see things out there in the dark. From a logical perspective, the TBT would presumably be even more limited in a fixed position than a guy with binoculars, so if everything can go "invisible" for the TBT view (which IRL certainly would not be able to get an unobstructed 360-degree view from its fixed position) then it certainly ought to be able to do so for the binocs view. Plus, using the UZO/TBT just doesn't "feel" the same (from an immersion perspective) as scanning with binocs - a small point to be sure, but for me a subsim is really all about the immersion factor. For me, without immersion it's just an arcade shooter, and there are certainly more interesting formats and genres if all you want is an arcade shooter.

Originally Posted by ryuzu

This can be avoided by turning off the Environmental Effects for now. You lose fog (and see through crew men) but you gain FPS. That fixed it for me (and it was a fairly rare event albeit extremely irritating).

I can try this - I'm not sure what losing see through crewmen means, but losing fog would be a huge sacrifice for me, since some of the more intense moments in SH3 came during approaches and attacks during "fog"/low visibility conditions, and I would hate not to be able to have fog work in SH4

Originally Posted by ryuzu

There are some issues with the TDC but nothing that should stop you putting in a decent performance with it (assuming you use it correctly - that requires a bit of readnig and experimenting just like the real thing).

Well, I haven't gotten to the point of conducting torpedo attacks yet, but from reading several threads here it sounds like there's still some significant bugs in the way the TDC/position keeper mechanism in game deals with targets on part side versus starboard side, and I haven't seen any indication that this has been fixed or a viable workaround developed yet. I don't mind spending time learning the new/different way the US version of this device worked compared to the German one in SH3 (in fact, I was looking forward to it), but I don't want to have to plan all my attacks to be from one particular side or invest a lot of time trying to learn how this thing works if it's not really working correctly in game yet, so I'm just saying that it seems better to wait on this part till the bugs get worked out of it.

Originally Posted by ryuzu

Graphics ..... in a sim - who cares? Wrong genre for that....

I sort of understand where you're coming from, but in some respects I couldn't disagree more - as noted above, the subsim genre is all about immersion - back when PC subsims were first introduced graphics didn't really matter all that much (as long as you could tell that 2 blocks and 1 stick was a destroyer and 4 blocks and 2 sticks was a freighter) because anything on the PC was more immersive than playing Avalon Hill's submarine board game. By now however, graphics have become critical for immersion - the time and effort the devs (and the modders) have obviously spent in both SH3 and SH4 improving sub, ship, water, explosion, fire, smoke, crew and other graphical elements of the game is a testament to that, and in general they've done a fantastic job improving the graphical "look and feel" of the series as it has progressed from version to version. That's what makes this jaggies business seem like such a giant step backwards, and I really hope the devs are able to put this right as they seem to be committed to do.

Originally Posted by ryuzu

From your description, itr seems like you've just heard all those problems repeated by others rather than tried them out for yourself to see how much of an issue they really are. There is rather a lot of disinformation going around about SH4 at the moment.

It's true that since my copy didn't arrive till recently I have done more reading that playing up to this point. However, I have now tried it out at least a little and have confirmed at least those problems I mentioned (except for the TDC thing, whch I haven't gotten to yet as noted above). I have great faith that the devs will eventually get this thing patched up to where it will become playable, and I'm glad that there are some folks who are able/willing to keep trying to play it now and thereby in essence serve as beta testers who can keep pointing out issues for the devs to address. I was just hoping that it would be a bit closer to playable at this stage.