Flags - (Not the Clint Eastwood movie)

Mylander · 03-10-07, 09:37 AM

OK, I am the last person to whine and complain about this beautiful sim. It looks fantastic. I am dying to get it in the mail and start playing. It will be $50 very well spent with all of the enjoyment I'll get out of it.

At this point, however, I have one suggestion to make. I think it would be fairly simple to implement, either in an Ubi patch or a mod.

The flags on the ships are way too big! They could be 1/4 the size they are now, or even smaller, and would look a whole lot better. Everything alse about the graphics looks so gorgeous, it just kills me to see these ridiculously outsized flags.

I don't know if this was done to facilitate recognizing friend or foe from a distance, or what, but it certainly detracts from immersion/believability in my opinion.

If I can't tell a ship's nationality based on visual recognition and the tactical situation, I need to either a) get closer, or b) consult my recognition manuals. If I have no idea who I'm slinging torpedoes at, I don't have any business being a sub skipper, now do I?

I have no doubt that this can be fixed fairly painlessly. I know SH IV is gold, but this is at the very top of my mod wish list. Other than this flag issue, I think everything looks wonderful. Anyone else agree?

Mylander

Drebbel · 03-10-07, 09:42 AM

And what about the location of the flag. Did WWII Jap ships realy fly it from their highest point ?

I am sure the dev-team has made these sacrifices to reality to improve game play. After all the only thing we have to ID our friends/foes is that flag. They ships do not have names on their bow, or do they ?

Mylander · 03-10-07, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drebbel

And what about the location of the flag. Did WWII Jap ships realy fly it from their highest point ?

I don't know about that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drebbel

I am sure the dev-team has made these sacrifices to reality to improve game play. After all the only thing we have to ID our friends/foes is that flag. They ships do not have names on their bow, or do they ?

I respectfully disagree. You don't need to get close enough to read her nameplate! Just close enough to make out the (realistically sized) flag - remember you have some good optics and magnification to do this - and/or based on your tactical situation and the ship type, make a decision of whether to engage or not, i.e. you're in the Bungo Suido, and there's a destroyer coming at you at flank speed, she's probably not a friendly. I don't need a visual on her flag to know that she's Japanese. Nor do I need one if I'm in a known Japanese shipping lane, well beyond friendly territory, and I see a convoy of merchants escorted by ASW ships with the low, sweeping lines of Japanese warships heading for Japan. Or a warship convoy with the characteristic "Pagoda" superstructures. Seeing a flag is a non-issue.

On the other hand, if I'm patrolling at twilight in the Solomons in 1942, I had better be very sure about who I'm shooting at. This is realism in the sim. Visual ship recognition was a very big part of the submarine trade in WWII. These huge flags - might as well just highlight all of the bad guys with a red box around the ship, and a blue box for the good guys. To me this just really "dumbs down" the sim in a very negative and unneccessary way. Just my opinion. Maybe others will love the big flags. I will see if I can change this myself, or lobby for someone else who is smarter to do so if I can't.

Didn't we do this in SH III?

Thanks,
Mylander

Deep-Six · 03-10-07, 11:49 AM

Mylander, the only thing you will be shooting at are ships flying the flag of Japan.

How hard can that be. Esp if you are near Japan itself.

Mylander · 03-10-07, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deep-Six

Mylander, the only thing you will be shooting at are ships flying the flag of Japan.

How hard can that be. Esp if you are near Japan itself.

Huh? I think you completely miss the point.

It wouldn't be hard at all with the current flags. So easy, in fact, as to be really stupid. Like I said, why don't we just have a big red box around all of the "bad guy" ships that we can see from 50 miles away? Now that would be fun! And challenging!

One of the main challenges of a sub skipper was target ID.

My point was that we don't need these ridiculously huge "dummy" flags. Now if you're in a situation where both sides have lots of ships operating, you'd better be sure who you are shooting at, whether by flag or silhouette recognition. Flags this size are not carried on seagoing vessels - I'm sorry - they're not.

The photo in Jack Aubrey's post notwithstanding, I would bet money that is some kind of ceremonial 'dress' flag especially flown for the photo op, and not used during normal operations.

Japanese merchant vessels especially would not be looking to advertise their nationality. They put themselves in a lot more danger by screaming I'm Japanese! with a huge flag, than just laying low, and hoping nobody figures out that they're Japanese until they're out of range.

Mylander

Mylander · 03-10-07, 05:47 PM

Let's put this argument to rest: Barkhorn has posted this excellent link to actual photos of Japanese warships and merchants: http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/s...n/jap-name.htm You can see the flag in many of them. They are absolutely tiny compared to the silly-sized ones in the sim. This is a serious gaffe in the graphics department in my opinion. Makes an otherwise very realistic, beautiful, immersive, graphical experience into a silly, fake one worthy of game boy graphics, not a serious PC sim that is using a 256 MB GPU or more to produce realistic graphics! To each his own on this, but I will be looking to do/beg for a mod on this one. I can't look at those flags and keep a straight face.:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Mylander

Elder-Pirate · 03-10-07, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drebbel

And what about the location of the flag. Did WWII Jap ships realy fly it from their highest point ?

Evidently they did according to "JackAubrey" post, can't get it much higher.

Where the heck have you been Drebbel ? Have'nt seen a post by you for a month of sundays..........well maybe two weeks of sundays.

Anyway good to see your still afloat.

JackAubrey · 03-10-07, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mylander

The flags on the ships are way too big! They could be 1/4 the size they are now, or even smaller, and would look a whole lot better. Everything alse about the graphics looks so gorgeous, it just kills me to see these ridiculously outsized flags.

To me, they don´t seem to be too big.
When i look at that picture and compare the flag size to the men, it seems that the flags were quite big on those japanese ships.

Shaffer4 · 03-10-07, 03:18 PM

The one on the mast is much smaller..

03-10-07, 09:37 AM	#1
Mylander Torpedoman Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New Bern, NC, USA Posts: 120 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 0	Flags - (Not the Clint Eastwood movie) OK, I am the last person to whine and complain about this beautiful sim. It looks fantastic. I am dying to get it in the mail and start playing. It will be $50 very well spent with all of the enjoyment I'll get out of it. At this point, however, I have one suggestion to make. I think it would be fairly simple to implement, either in an Ubi patch or a mod. The flags on the ships are way too big! They could be 1/4 the size they are now, or even smaller, and would look a whole lot better. Everything alse about the graphics looks so gorgeous, it just kills me to see these ridiculously outsized flags. I don't know if this was done to facilitate recognizing friend or foe from a distance, or what, but it certainly detracts from immersion/believability in my opinion. If I can't tell a ship's nationality based on visual recognition and the tactical situation, I need to either a) get closer, or b) consult my recognition manuals. If I have no idea who I'm slinging torpedoes at, I don't have any business being a sub skipper, now do I? I have no doubt that this can be fixed fairly painlessly. I know SH IV is gold, but this is at the very top of my mod wish list. Other than this flag issue, I think everything looks wonderful. Anyone else agree? Mylander __________________ Periscope depth... Up Scope...

03-10-07, 11:49 AM	#4
Deep-Six Sonar Guy Join Date: May 2005 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 399 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Mylander, the only thing you will be shooting at are ships flying the flag of Japan. How hard can that be. Esp if you are near Japan itself. __________________

03-10-07, 05:47 PM	#6
Mylander Torpedoman Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New Bern, NC, USA Posts: 120 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 0	Let's put this argument to rest: Barkhorn has posted this excellent link to actual photos of Japanese warships and merchants: http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/s...n/jap-name.htm You can see the flag in many of them. They are absolutely tiny compared to the silly-sized ones in the sim. This is a serious gaffe in the graphics department in my opinion. Makes an otherwise very realistic, beautiful, immersive, graphical experience into a silly, fake one worthy of game boy graphics, not a serious PC sim that is using a 256 MB GPU or more to produce realistic graphics! To each his own on this, but I will be looking to do/beg for a mod on this one. I can't look at those flags and keep a straight face.:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Mylander __________________ Periscope depth... Up Scope...

03-10-07, 03:18 PM	#9
Shaffer4 Ensign Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Walla Walla, Wa Posts: 223 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	The one on the mast is much smaller.. __________________

03-10-07, 09:42 AM	#2
Drebbel Dutch Sea Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Almost at periscope death ! Posts: 1,665 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	And what about the location of the flag. Did WWII Jap ships realy fly it from their highest point ? I am sure the dev-team has made these sacrifices to reality to improve game play. After all the only thing we have to ID our friends/foes is that flag. They ships do not have names on their bow, or do they ?