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10-06-19, 05:32 AM | #1 | |
Chief of the Boat
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Mum appeals for US suspect's return
I apologise for the wall of text but for those who care to read it I am mindful that the whole article should be posted to assist in a full understanding.
I'm not about annoying our American members on here but this is potentially very damaging to our countries so called 'special' relationship and will do little other than remind the western world that as Trump repeats so often 'AMERICA FIRST' It is being alleged the female driver had simply driven out of the base and travelled along the american side of the road (right) causing a head-on collision with the lad on the bike. I wonder if this will be brought to Trumps attention and I can't help but remind him the UK is not NK and both our countries espouse to adhere to justice and fairness so hopefully common sense and fairness to the victims family will be shown. Quote:
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10-06-19, 05:42 AM | #2 |
Silent Hunter
Join Date: Jan 2006
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A sad state of affairs, hopefully more consideration will be given to the victims family.
I cant say i ever understood this diplomatic immunity gag. I mean - I can understand that diplomats need to be protected from becoming political prisoners in some sketchy situations when those two nations relationship has soured. But i don't see why they need to be so exempt from so much of the the host countries law. But then thats just view I cast without any real knowledge on the subject. |
10-06-19, 05:58 AM | #3 |
Soaring
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Diplomatic immunity should include diplomats not needing to give witness confessions beforee the hosts court in national law enforcement cases, should be imune to getting arrested and interviewed about their own nations internal affairs, means and carriers of data and messages between the diplomat and his government must be included in immunity. All this is okay and necessary, but obvious offending of the hosting nations laws, speeding in the traffic and causing accidents (BIG problem in many capitols! Foreign staff often thinks the streets are their personal racetracks and parking lots), criminal charges like rape and so on - these things should not be falling under diplomatic immuniy. That they get usually covered by these as well I can only explain by the risk that foreign diplomats get interrogated and pressed under charges of criminal law - and the opportunity then beign exploited to also interrogate them on own internal political stuff that should be covered by immunity.
Maybe it would be simler if one would consider more carefull with whom one forms ties and whom one lets gain diplomatic status in one's own capitol. In other words: be more chosey in accepting your guests. Its not as if these days envoys and ambassadors in place are really necessary. in case of wanted personal contact, on could arrnage a meeting between representatives in a third country, and silently and unnoticed form the public. A day's trip, and you are done. Finally, I have a principle issue with the concept of maintaining a strong own security force in another country. The protection of a foreign ambassador is in the hosts own best interest, and it shoukld be the host caring for it, and doing so alone. ending your envoy with a strong presence of body guards, marines and so forth, in princ9ple is no dipllatic mission, but an invasion. If the sendign nation thinks they cannot count on the security of the nation they want to send somebody to, then maybe they just should not send somebody. This way, the reputation of s hosting nation and its credibility in guaranteeing diplloatic protection, is in hands of the hosting nation. Most of it is just höfisches Gehabe: courtly, affected behaviour. To me, it just is stage thunder and mumbojumbo. As the peasant would even care for what foreign ambassadors and envoys are residing in their own capitol. Like film stars celebrate themselves when rewardingf ilm prizes, so does the creme de la creme of political high life. Maybe I am too Vulcan for this kind of stuff, but it means nothign to me. Poltical decisions should not be formed on grounds of someboy'S elses smile or polsiuhed manners, but becasue of facts, content, data, messages's core information. The bringer of the message is irrelevant. Envoys and ambassadors, representatives of foreign nations should know that they are being held liable for their behaviour and acts. Then they can alter their behaviour accordingly so not to collide with local laws and not causing any drama by their own impertinence. The fleeing mother told the police she would not leave, but did. I am strongly biased against her now. Immunity should not cover this incident.
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Last edited by Skybird; 10-06-19 at 06:14 AM. |
10-06-19, 06:33 AM | #4 |
Chief of the Boat
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Agreed
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10-06-19, 06:48 AM | #5 |
Fleet Admiral
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The US, or any issuing country can remove any immunity from any diplomat at any time. Normally this is done only for the most egregious and deliberate crimes.
If this woman had stayed in the country and brought to trial, what would be the most likely out come? What penalties are usually levied on UK tourists who would be involved in this sort of accident? While the UK can PNG the Ambassador, that's a pretty serious diplomatic step. Even if the Ambassador remains in that position, the effects of this incident will severely affect his ability to perform his duties. A lot of diplomacy is done at the personal relationship level. It will depend on exactly how much the UK cares about this incident. They can make a big deal about it or just sound like they are making a big deal about it. Unfortunately, the US keeps confidential most information on foreign diplomats breaking US laws so it is difficult to determine that the past procedures are in these cases. One option is that the US Ambassador to the UK may end up being recalled and replaced. The conduct of the Ambassador's wife may affect the future acceptance of the Ambassador's credentials. However, it is not uncommon for the diplomatic relationships to overshadow the death of one individual. Shouldn't happen, but I wager it does. How much is the UK willing to risk in its relationships with the US over this?
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10-06-19, 06:59 AM | #6 |
Chief of the Boat
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I see it as, what price is a life?
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10-06-19, 06:59 AM | #7 |
Soaring
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You volunteer to be guest in a foreign country - you play by its rules, and if not you are to be held accountable for the consequences. Thats simple, Platapus. This traffic accident was no state affair, it was a traffic accident - the American diplomatic side made it a state affair by evading the laws regulating such traffic accidents and consequences in Britain.
Its not as if she is under thread ti be skinned alive. But she ist subject to british laws in this incident, no doubt. Politics and state affairs have nothing to do with it, its a traffic accident, and she has to accept her role in it. A human person is dead. A family shattered. British law knows rules and regulatons how to handle such accidents and exmainations. She should not enjoy immunty from having to undergo these. The laws of the hosting nation count. If you do not like them, or are not ready to accept that - dont go there.
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10-09-19, 12:26 PM | #8 |
Silent Hunter
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it is an unfortunate situation, but no, I don't see the U.S. waiving diplomatic immunity over a traffic accident.
Diplomatic immunity is a fundamental pricinciple and exists so that a foreign country does not detain diplomats on bogus charges just to put pressure on the Diplomat's home country. Not saying the UK would do it, but once you establish a precedent, other countries will use it in the future. When I lived in Ottawa, the City government was always complaining about diplomatic vehicles (which were easy to identify because their cars all had red license plates), since they routinely ignored parking and traffic rules, ignoring all traffic tickets and often causing traffic jams or even accidents. The only recourse when a diplomat was really abusing the system was for the External Affairs department to complain to their host country and have them recalled.
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10-09-19, 05:05 PM | #9 |
Fleet Admiral
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I think the issue is that this is not just a traffic accident, it was the killing of someone
Some other sources are claiming that this individual may not actually have diplomatic immunity. Something like this should be easy to determine. Diplomatic Immunity is like being pregnant. Either you have or you don't have Diplomatic Immunity depending on the credentials.
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10-10-19, 05:36 AM | #10 | |
Chief of the Boat
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Quote:
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10-10-19, 01:30 PM | #11 |
Ocean Warrior
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I hope her conscience is killing her right now, but with her leaving the country the way she did, she doesn't have a conscience. But you know what they say about Karma, it can come around and pay a visit to her too, wish I could be there when it happens.
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10-11-19, 07:17 AM | #12 |
Chief of the Boat
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You and me both matey.
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