Which target would you choose?

Bubblehead1980 · 03-05-21, 03:18 PM

TMO 2.5 + custom mods
USS Salmon SS-182 (Salmon Class)
realism 100
Cams and map contacts off.

12 December 1943

N of Truk.

Patrolling area North of Truk 150 NM or so. SJ radar makes contact before dawn. Can tell by rapidly changing situation are moving at high speed. Got o GQ commence closing to get visual.

As dawn begins to break, can see the high pagoda masts of a battleship followed by the sleek flat profile of a carrier. Three escorts (assumed to be DD)

Assuming a dawn zig is coming, hold off on dive and final approach. I assumed correctly as made a zig to NE, towards us, confirming have not detected the sub. We dive at 0620 and commence slow quiet approach at 100 feet, popping up twice to scope depth to confirm targets still heading our way. Observation reveals a YAMATO Class Battleship and a Shokaku Class Carrier.

Curious, which would you target? In a Gato class etc with six forward tubes, would shoot three at each, three can ruin a carrier, three should slow the BB. However, Salmon has four tubes forward and aft. Tubes are loaded out with Mark 14's.

I initially planned to target the carrier, figuring in a real scenario it would be targeted as a more valuable target, and hoped could follow up with an attack on Yamato later. However, the starboard flank escort moved right into its position and would run over me before had a good shot at the carrier, so I decided up firing all four at the Yamato, all four hit. Took sub to 350 feet, took many depth charges but escaped. Back at scope depth, could see the Yamato sailing away in distance, but with a fire burning and listing forward. to starboard. Attempted an end around, but heavy air cover from the carrier prevented this. I do wish the sim provided credit for damaging major warships.

Side Note: While I was unaware this appearance and surprised (can't remember everything I have added, but checked the mission editor afterwards) When upgrading TMO traffic, I made appearances and chances of encounters of major ships such as Yamato, Battleships, and carriers fairly rare as in real life, along the lines of RSRD. This provides a thrill, especially when it is random but also fun when receive an ULTRA(added those as well) and chase down an important TF or convoy. The routes, times etc are based on historical movement of these vessels within limitations of the sim.

I also changed the Yamato's damage model a bit, it is difficult to sink as was in reality.

On December 12 1943, Yamato, SHOKAKU, DD TANIKAZE and AKIGUMO and KAZAGUMO departed Truk for Japan. On the return trip back to Truk on 20 December (also added) they were attacked by USS Skate SS-305, damaging Yamato, forcing its return to Japan for repairs.

Randomizer · 03-05-21, 04:38 PM

I do not recall ever sinking a major warship in SH4 and so am a trifle envious. That said though:

Take the shot at the capital ship most likely to achieve the greatest number of hits. If this appears equal, go for the carrier.

Subjectively, the loss of a fleet carrier does much greater harm to the Japanese war effort and correspondingly is of greater benefit to America in the Pacific. While the battleship will earn a higher score, solely by virtue of displacement, sinking the carrier is an arguably better result when viewed through the big-picture lens.

Just $0.02 CAD.

-C

Mad Mardigan · 03-05-21, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

TMO 2.5 + custom mods
USS Salmon SS-182 (Salmon Class)
realism 100
Cams and map contacts off.

12 December 1943

N of Truk.

Patrolling area North of Truk 150 NM or so. SJ radar makes contact before dawn. Can tell by rapidly changing situation are moving at high speed. Got o GQ commence closing to get visual.

As dawn begins to break, can see the high pagoda masts of a battleship followed by the sleek flat profile of a carrier. Three escorts (assumed to be DD)

Assuming a dawn zig is coming, hold off on dive and final approach. I assumed correctly as made a zig to NE, towards us, confirming have not detected the sub. We dive at 0620 and commence slow quiet approach at 100 feet, popping up twice to scope depth to confirm targets still heading our way. Observation reveals a YAMATO Class Battleship and a Shokaku Class Carrier.

Curious, which would you target? In a Gato class etc with six forward tubes, would shoot three at each, three can ruin a carrier, three should slow the BB. However, Salmon has four tubes forward and aft. Tubes are loaded out with Mark 14's.

I initially planned to target the carrier, figuring in a real scenario it would be targeted as a more valuable target, and hoped could follow up with an attack on Yamato later. However, the starboard flank escort moved right into its position and would run over me before had a good shot at the carrier, so I decided up firing all four at the Yamato, all four hit. Took sub to 350 feet, took many depth charges but escaped. Back at scope depth, could see the Yamato sailing away in distance, but with a fire burning and listing forward. to starboard. Attempted an end around, but heavy air cover from the carrier prevented this. I do wish the sim provided credit for damaging major warships.

Side Note: While I was unaware this appearance and surprised (can't remember everything I have added, but checked the mission editor afterwards) When upgrading TMO traffic, I made appearances and chances of encounters of major ships such as Yamato, Battleships, and carriers fairly rare as in real life, along the lines of RSRD. This provides a thrill, especially when it is random but also fun when receive an ULTRA(added those as well) and chase down an important TF or convoy. The routes, times etc are based on historical movement of these vessels within limitations of the sim.

I also changed the Yamato's damage model a bit, it is difficult to sink as was in reality.

On December 12 1943, Yamato, SHOKAKU, DD TANIKAZE and AKIGUMO and KAZAGUMO departed Truk for Japan. On the return trip back to Truk on 20 December (also added) they were attacked by USS Skate SS-305, damaging Yamato, forcing its return to Japan for repairs.

If you are still in a position to & have time to accomplish it, would say of doing what I did in a Salmon boat in an early on career...
lay in bow on same course heading, allow them to pass on until they are near 90 degrees to your posit... then unload 3 aft at the carrier, the remaining aft torp & all tubes forward at the BB... after they are off on their way... drop scope, & have the crew bust a move on doing a reload. (provided you have them to do so, torps to reload, that is..

) That is what I would do... take a shot at nailing both... what's that saying... fortune favors the brave.. prepared.. something along those lines....

M. M.

Armistead · 03-05-21, 11:09 PM

Dawn..., can you could track all day keeping ahead of them and maybe attack at night on the surface. I recall how funny a carrier would launch the entire wad at you if spotted. Guess you could sink the carrier and end around for the Y if speed allows. I recall once in a Sargo I lined up so a carrier ran right over me, came up and shot 4 in his arse at about 400 yards and that damaged his prop and slowed him way down while shooting 4 dead on at the next carriers bow in front of me. It was funny the one I shot in the arse the list was that his bow was almost pointing up without sinking but props blown off, while the one I shot it the bow the list had it's arse so far out of the water the props were still fast spinning but it could go nowhere.

Vox165 · 03-06-21, 07:04 AM

Fleet boat target doctrine prioritized : CV then BB:
" If a choice is offered, priority is as follows: CV, BB, ACV, AO, any man of war larger than a DD, AP, AK, DD. However, no worthwhile target should be passed up in the hope of securing a better one."

3catcircus · 03-15-21, 12:51 PM

Depends - which torpedoes are you carrying? You could possibly, as Mad Mardigan indicated, fire off from both ends and have them circle 90 degrees off bow/stern while targets are abeam. But, you run the risk of circling back on you.

Intent would be to hit the aft-most of the two first if you can't hit both targets at the same time.

Ideally, they are in trail and you can fan off shots from both ends with the ability to have maximum dispersion of the shots.

If you are unable to fire at such an extreme angle due to the torpedo type and don't have 6 up front, you're better off firing three at the BB and one at the carrier. Yamato had thicker armor (2x as thick in most locations) than Shokaku. Unless you have torpedos without depth keeping and magnetic issues, your best bet is manually aiming for more vulnerable locations on the hull.

The real Yamato took 11 torpedos and 6 bombs and only sunk due to a massive magazine explosion caused by uncontrollable fires. Had the crew been able to fight the fires and flooding, she likely would have been able to limp home.

Bubblehead1980 · 03-15-21, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

Depends - which torpedoes are you carrying? You could possibly, as Mad Mardigan indicated, fire off from both ends and have them circle 90 degrees off bow/stern while targets are abeam. But, you run the risk of circling back on you.

Intent would be to hit the aft-most of the two first if you can't hit both targets at the same time.

Ideally, they are in trail and you can fan off shots from both ends with the ability to have maximum dispersion of the shots.

If you are unable to fire at such an extreme angle due to the torpedo type and don't have 6 up front, you're better off firing three at the BB and one at the carrier. Yamato had thicker armor (2x as thick in most locations) than Shokaku. Unless you have torpedos without depth keeping and magnetic issues, your best bet is manually aiming for more vulnerable locations on the hull.

The real Yamato took 11 torpedoes and 6 bombs and only sunk due to a massive magazine explosion caused by uncontrollable fires. Had the crew been able to fight the fires and flooding, she likely would have been able to limp home.

I decided on the carrier as more important target but on next observation the flank escort had rushed back into position, so would likely be detected before could make a proper shot. switched to Yamato. I fired and scored hits, which slowed the Yamato for some time, caused a slight starboard list forward. Mark 18;s lack of a wake helped here but Yamato sped back up and sailed away. Despite chasing all day, had to dive often to avoid the planes from the carrier. Eventually lost contact and could not regain.

This is my custom version of TMO (releasing in near future as a TMO update) and the Yamato is a tough bird to sink in the sim now. As you mentioned(I read it was 18 torpedoes 15 bomb hits, many near misses) , was way too easy in normal game. Damaged her twice in different careers once in August 42(5 Mark 14 hits from bow tubes, six prematurely detonated, stern tubes were two duds, one miss due to gyro issue, third premature. Went deep to avoid depth charges, when came back she was listing to port but making 9 knots and limping into Truk western entrance) and one in late 43 but never sunk her (outside of testing) since the early days of TMO with RSRD.

03-05-21, 03:18 PM	#1
Bubblehead1980 Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida USA Posts: 6,922 Downloads: 550 Uploads: 42	Which target would you choose? TMO 2.5 + custom mods USS Salmon SS-182 (Salmon Class) realism 100 Cams and map contacts off. 12 December 1943 N of Truk. Patrolling area North of Truk 150 NM or so. SJ radar makes contact before dawn. Can tell by rapidly changing situation are moving at high speed. Got o GQ commence closing to get visual. As dawn begins to break, can see the high pagoda masts of a battleship followed by the sleek flat profile of a carrier. Three escorts (assumed to be DD) Assuming a dawn zig is coming, hold off on dive and final approach. I assumed correctly as made a zig to NE, towards us, confirming have not detected the sub. We dive at 0620 and commence slow quiet approach at 100 feet, popping up twice to scope depth to confirm targets still heading our way. Observation reveals a YAMATO Class Battleship and a Shokaku Class Carrier. Curious, which would you target? In a Gato class etc with six forward tubes, would shoot three at each, three can ruin a carrier, three should slow the BB. However, Salmon has four tubes forward and aft. Tubes are loaded out with Mark 14's. I initially planned to target the carrier, figuring in a real scenario it would be targeted as a more valuable target, and hoped could follow up with an attack on Yamato later. However, the starboard flank escort moved right into its position and would run over me before had a good shot at the carrier, so I decided up firing all four at the Yamato, all four hit. Took sub to 350 feet, took many depth charges but escaped. Back at scope depth, could see the Yamato sailing away in distance, but with a fire burning and listing forward. to starboard. Attempted an end around, but heavy air cover from the carrier prevented this. I do wish the sim provided credit for damaging major warships. Side Note: While I was unaware this appearance and surprised (can't remember everything I have added, but checked the mission editor afterwards) When upgrading TMO traffic, I made appearances and chances of encounters of major ships such as Yamato, Battleships, and carriers fairly rare as in real life, along the lines of RSRD. This provides a thrill, especially when it is random but also fun when receive an ULTRA(added those as well) and chase down an important TF or convoy. The routes, times etc are based on historical movement of these vessels within limitations of the sim. I also changed the Yamato's damage model a bit, it is difficult to sink as was in reality. On December 12 1943, Yamato, SHOKAKU, DD TANIKAZE and AKIGUMO and KAZAGUMO departed Truk for Japan. On the return trip back to Truk on 20 December (also added) they were attacked by USS Skate SS-305, damaging Yamato, forcing its return to Japan for repairs.

03-05-21, 11:09 PM	#4
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,864 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	Dawn..., can you could track all day keeping ahead of them and maybe attack at night on the surface. I recall how funny a carrier would launch the entire wad at you if spotted. Guess you could sink the carrier and end around for the Y if speed allows. I recall once in a Sargo I lined up so a carrier ran right over me, came up and shot 4 in his arse at about 400 yards and that damaged his prop and slowed him way down while shooting 4 dead on at the next carriers bow in front of me. It was funny the one I shot in the arse the list was that his bow was almost pointing up without sinking but props blown off, while the one I shot it the bow the list had it's arse so far out of the water the props were still fast spinning but it could go nowhere. __________________ You see my dog don't like people laughing. He gets the crazy idea you're laughing at him. Now if you apologize like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it.

03-05-21, 04:38 PM	#2
Randomizer Watch Officer Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Vancouver Island Posts: 334 Downloads: 131 Uploads: 0	I do not recall ever sinking a major warship in SH4 and so am a trifle envious. That said though: Take the shot at the capital ship most likely to achieve the greatest number of hits. If this appears equal, go for the carrier. Subjectively, the loss of a fleet carrier does much greater harm to the Japanese war effort and correspondingly is of greater benefit to America in the Pacific. While the battleship will earn a higher score, solely by virtue of displacement, sinking the carrier is an arguably better result when viewed through the big-picture lens. Just $0.02 CAD. -C

03-06-21, 07:04 AM	#5
Vox165 Soundman Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Penns Woods Posts: 149 Downloads: 141 Uploads: 0	Fleet boat target doctrine prioritized : CV then BB: " If a choice is offered, priority is as follows: CV, BB, ACV, AO, any man of war larger than a DD, AP, AK, DD. However, no worthwhile target should be passed up in the hope of securing a better one."

03-15-21, 12:51 PM	#6
3catcircus Grey Wolf Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 955 Downloads: 247 Uploads: 0	Depends - which torpedoes are you carrying? You could possibly, as Mad Mardigan indicated, fire off from both ends and have them circle 90 degrees off bow/stern while targets are abeam. But, you run the risk of circling back on you. Intent would be to hit the aft-most of the two first if you can't hit both targets at the same time. Ideally, they are in trail and you can fan off shots from both ends with the ability to have maximum dispersion of the shots. If you are unable to fire at such an extreme angle due to the torpedo type and don't have 6 up front, you're better off firing three at the BB and one at the carrier. Yamato had thicker armor (2x as thick in most locations) than Shokaku. Unless you have torpedos without depth keeping and magnetic issues, your best bet is manually aiming for more vulnerable locations on the hull. The real Yamato took 11 torpedos and 6 bombs and only sunk due to a massive magazine explosion caused by uncontrollable fires. Had the crew been able to fight the fires and flooding, she likely would have been able to limp home.