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SUBSIM: The Web's #1 resource for all submarine & naval simulations since 1997 |
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#1 |
Ace of the Deep
![]() Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,013
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It seam as though Ubi have put working Wolfpacks into SH5.
![]() http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/t...7/m/8381081568 I knew Ubi said they had put them in... but i though they were bugged? I've not seen them personaly yet.... But im gonna go looking for em.... Wolfpacks in action. ![]()
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Windows 7, 64bit. Phenom II 965BE (OC 4cores @ 3.8 Ghz). Radeon HD4870 (1gb gddr5). 6gb Ram. |
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#2 |
Sea Lord
![]() Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,845
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Lies. You know, this game works because our fat imagination, because sometime we want so much to work as we dream that we actually belive it does. But is just a mirrage.
I'm doing Black Pit now and there is a lot of wolfpack activity there, including a mission with "sink million ships using wolpack tactics". So instead of hunting convoys, I hunted our u-boats trying to find and join a wolfpack. Finally I managed to find a big one, 9 u-boot heading west in close formation. So I joined them hoping for a great hunt. My *** ! Few hours after I joined them, we run right into a huge convoy with heavy escort and all that goodies. Gues what this lame wolfpack did? They broke up. Those retards in front crash dived and sailed away at 50m, 2 in next row got 1 shoted by the escorts and the last row in back managed to sail away on high speed. I left all alone against mad escorts and zig-zag'in ships. So that story on official forum is a result of an action hungry imagination. AI subs don't engage enemy ships, they dodge them.. is not the first time I see this. Same as the u-boot did that I posted in screenshot thread, where after I joined another AI u-boot and we found a convoy.. he dived and on max speed avoided any contact with the enemy.. after the convoy passed he surfaced again but bad luck.. the convoy had a battleship that one shoted him. So yeah, sadly there is no working wolfpack in the game, it's just an ilusion ![]() |
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#3 |
Ace of the Deep
![]() Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,013
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Well.... they are in, there just not working as intended, or as we would like them to work.
Maybe they can be modded to work? ![]()
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Windows 7, 64bit. Phenom II 965BE (OC 4cores @ 3.8 Ghz). Radeon HD4870 (1gb gddr5). 6gb Ram. |
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#4 |
Commodore
![]() Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Scotland, UK
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Sounds exactly the same as the 3 Wolfpacks I linked up with. Was really excited when we found our first convoy and then all of a sudden I noticed all the u-boats diving and they all broke off so yeah it was just me left with a cracking convoy. The wolfpack was 8 U-boats strong. 3 depth charged and 2 unknown deaths... Kick ass AI...
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#5 |
The Old Man
![]() Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Mountain Ash, Wales, U.K.
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I am glad to hear this as I hadn't seen any Wolfpacks yet. Although, that story on the Ubi Forum could be faked by using Multiplayer and just switching off the name labels and taking screenshots
![]() It's such a huge shame SH5 wasn't finished by The Devs, it could've been amazing. I don't believe the Modders can fix things like the missing Subnets and Mines, let alone all the other stuff. The Darkwraith seems to be obsessed with the U.I. and while his improvements are great, there's no point having a great UI on a broken game.
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***THE GENERAL*** |
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#6 |
Commodore
![]() Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 623
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this is a petty comment but i hate looking at the other u-boats and you can't see any crew on the conning tower. Just a ghost boats sailing around. Just seems odd.
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#7 |
Grey Wolf
![]() Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Running silent and deep
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I don't think I've seen one person here say that they've seen co-ordinated attacks on a convoy from AI U-boats.
Conclusion: Wolfpacks are not working. And if this is hardcoded then only an official patch can fix it. |
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#8 | |
Sea Lord
![]() Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,845
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![]() Quote:
Regarding the mods, I agree.. there is a lot of work on the UI, but almost none on the game and AI behaviour. ddrgn had worked on an interesting mod "U-boat Historical Specifications" and "Feared Hunters" that could evolve into a bigger something, similar to TDW work but dealing with the AI and the game mechanics ... maybe he don't have time or enough interest to continue his work... |
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#9 |
Stinking drunk in Trinidad
![]() Join Date: Jan 2010
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Seems like the developers were stopped when they had the wolfpacks halfway in the game, and couldn't finish creating a proper AI for them. Really sad, this would have been the one unimaginable crown jewel of this game, the one thing truly everyone was hoping for. But the graphics are awesome!
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Scientific facts are not determined by the opinion of the majority, nor by a democratic vote. |
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#10 | |
Sea Lord
![]() Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Grid CH 26, Spain ,Barcelona
Posts: 1,857
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Soon or later the "easy " mods will reach the limit and modders start to focus on other broken poins of the game. I remember sh3 and some mods take a lot of time, for example moon reflections , broken in stock game
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But this ship can't sink!... She is made of iron, sir. I assure you, she can. and she will. It is a mathematical certainty. Strength and honor |
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#11 | |
Watch
![]() Join Date: Aug 2009
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![]() Quote:
When I unlocked THE BLACK PIT campaign, the video conference (or was it the description of the campaign ?) referred to the possibility to use wolfpacks for the first time… Mmm… this looked pretty exciting, but would the wolfpacks work ? In order to check, I chose the mission « Triumph of the wolpack » which apparently requires to cooperate with a wolfpack. I left port and sailed through the Biscay Bay. While approximately in the middle of the bay, a wolfpack showed on the nav map, just a few hundreds of km North of my position, apparently sailing parallel to my course. So far, nothing special. But this wolfpack was different : it kept sending its position every few hours, which made the wolfpack « blimp » on the nav map when using time compression. Odd… Other wolfpacks don’t do that (up to my experience) : they show up once or twice and that’s it, and I have to chase them to find them. The wolfpack was heading NE, but when it got out of Biscay Bay and was a few hundred km E of Ireland, it changed course and headed straight to my allocated patrol area, due East… I decided to position myself in front of the wolfpack and to proceed to the patrol area, at the same course and speed (14 knots). A few convoys and independent ships were reported by my radioman but nothing close by or worth a long chase. Then « it » happened… 24 September 1942 14 :42 Convoy reported on nav map, 750km East. Intercept course plotted : it’s running on the same line as the wolfpack and the two will clash together ! I keep speed at 14 knots running parallel to the wolfpack at approx 70km. Wolfpack has about 6 subs according to hydrophone, speed still 14 knots. 25 September 1942 6 :07 Running parallel to wolfpack distance 35km on intercept course with convoy 13 :19 Still running parallel to wolfpack distance 13km on intercept course with convoy. Convoy suddenly detected on nav map (by hydrophone) distance 13km speed 10knots. Both my sub and the wolfpack are in front of convoy, perfect attack position, outside the « black pit sector » but inside allocated patrol area (200km of center of patrol area). Looking good for some mission kills ! 13 :21 Clouds partial, precipitations none, fog medium, visibility medium. « Total revealing » and « safe communications » enabled. 13 :28 First ship of the convoy in sight. Nav map shows 20+ ships and only 2 escorts. While I peek around a destroyer suddenly comes out of the fog, distance 2000m speed 10 knots. It hasn’t spotted me (yet). I submerge deck at 7m and reduce speed. 13 :29 More ships of the convoy come in sight. Merchantman sighted 4000m ahead. Convoy and Patrol Reports sent. Going to P-depth and silent running. As I dive, the escort opens fire on me and starts rushing to my position, and the convoy starts the usual zigzagging. Decoys deployed. 13 :32 Most of the wolfpack is still on parallel course with convoy, distance 6500m now, but there are 2 subs which will definitively clash with the convoy unless they alter course. But so far, the wolfpack has not changed formation or speed (they must be deciphering my message ?) 13 :33 Depth 90m and destroyer heading for decoys. Stabilizing at 105m and hearing depth charges exploding at approx 20m. 13 :41 Numerous depth charges explosions, too far to do any harm. Using the external cam, I spot 1 sub on surface approx 3000m from convoy, but it does not take any action whatsoever. 13 :43 Merchantman opens fire on this sub, which deep dives instantly and turns away from the convoy at high speed (as expected having read this thread before the mission). The coward is fleeing ! What a lousy b*st*rd ! 13 :44 AI Sub is at 70m (must have done a crash dive), still going high speed away from the convoy. Obviously he doesn’t rig for silent running when under attack… Looking at the rest of the wolfpack, I notice 3 subs have dived and 2 more are still surfaced. These two have changed course to intercept the convoy ! A reaction at least ! The other submerged ones are still on a parallel course. 13 :45 Wolfpack is now altering course : 3 submerged subs (2 turning away from convoy, 1 moving in) and 2 surfaced subs (1 on intercept course, other 1 turning). Can’t find the 6th sub. 13 :46 The submerged subs have all returned at p-depth… and are now all heading to the convoy ! Merchantmen column is about 1000m away from me. I activate « Riposte » and « Propaganda » on my sub and return to p-depth 13 :51 I’m getting tired of all this idleness so I decide to grab some action. I notice I’m now almost in the center of the convoy, ships are all around me. Fire no.1 on medium tanker, no.2 & 3 on liberty ship, dead ahead. 2 ships sunk. 13 :52 Fire no.5 on large steamer (war supplies). Hit and left burning, residual speed 5knots. All wolfpack subs have now submerged, 3 are heading to the convoy, 2 turning away, no sign of 6th sub, their underwater speed is 7knots (max speed) 13 :57 2 escorts head to the sub which had been previously fired upon by the merchantman. Sub speeds away at 70m speed 7knots. Still two wolfpack subs closing in submerged. Lost trace of the other ones. Fire no.4 on large steamer, left burning and dead in the water. Start chasing the other damaged ship at max speed. 13 :58 6th sub detected, rear of convoy, submerged and approaching fast. Is this the lead sub ? 13 :59 The damaged ship I was chasing seemed to have stopped. Investigations show its screws have been blown off. It has transformed into a sitting duck… I decide to leave him alone (for now) to see if another sub from the pack is going to try to finish him off. Should be an easy target for my « partners ». I concentrate again on the other ships. 14 :01 Fire no.5 on motionless steamer next to one of the damaged ships (these captains don’t seem to know you’re not supposed to stop your ship during a convoy battle !). Ship left burning dead in the water (that’s the 3rd one damaged). Wolfpack subs appear intermittently on nav map. Some have surfaced while the others continue submerged. Speed of surfaced subs is now 12knots (instead of 14). Wolfpack situation is chaotic, half of the subs seem to turn around but other ones still push forward on an interception course. Closest sub to the convoy is about 4700m (on surface North of convoy). I can see 2 other subs on surface, operating close to each other, 5000m NE of convoy, and not far away of the sub just mentioned. A 4th sub is also spotted closing in on surface. 14 :05 Destroyer sighted heading my direction, distance 4000m speed 10knots. It’s chasing me after seeing the explosions ! Dive at 80m, launch decoys and rig for silent running. 14 :08 I can’t believe it ! As I’m inspecting the surfaced sub which is closest to the convoy (approx 1500m), and just as it gets under fire from one of the merchantmen, I suddenly spot a spread of four steam torpedoes coming out of the tubes and heading directly for the convoy !!!! The sub then dives quickly, shells falling all around, and turns sharply. I dive to 50m to avoid torps. BUT I SAW IT : THE WOLFPACK SUBS DO ACTUALLY FIRE THEIR TORPEDOES (at least one of them did) !!!! 14 :12 No torpedo impact, they must have all missed. The pair of subs mentioned at 14 :01 is now approx 1300m from the convoy. They attract heavy fire from the merchantmen, dive and turn around. No torpedoes seen. First attacking sub is still at p-depth and now that the pair of subs has dived, it attracts all the gunfire from the convoy. Even AA guns are brought into action. I can hear a lot of hull explosions around the sub, which doesn’t even lower its attack scope. Sub is likely to be sunk if it stays at p-depth with its scope clearly rising outside the water… I go back to p-depth since the escorts have turned their attention to wolfpack subs closing in E of the convoy. 14 :23 No more sign of the first attack sub (probably sunk due to massive gunfire). The pair of subs NE of convoy surfaces and heads back to the convoy, distance 1300m. Other wolfpack subs E of convoy surface and get attacked by escorts, which thus neglect the pair of subs located NE of convoy 14 :25 One escort is burning but appears to be only slightly damaged. Did it get hit by its own depth charges ? 14 :30 2 more subs attacking from rear on surface, but no sign of the pair of subs NE of convoy… They have disappeared from the nav map and I assume they are lost. Fire no.4 on steamer and hit the rudder (now there are 4 burning ships dead in the water) 14 :36 Destroyer cutting through the convoy and heading straight to me at high speed. Launching decoys, diving to 150m, silent running and heading parallel to convoy. 14 :38 Back to contemplate the 2 subs attacking from the rear of the convoy, I suddenly see 4 faint white lines in the water just in front of the 1st sub : IT’S LAUNCHING A TORPEDO SPREAD !!!! TORPS ONCE AGAIN !!! Steam torps. Much to my bewilderment, the 4 torps take a 180 degrees turn and dart away from the convoy ! Is this a training wolfpack ??? What’s wrong with these rookie captains ??? The attacking sub dives deep. 14 :39 Going back to p-depth. While operating the attack scope, I realize I had been looking at about 180 degrees when the 2nd torpedo attack took place. Is there a connection ? 14 :40 The second sub stays on surface, for some unknown reason, and gets attacked by a destroyer. The destroyer closes in very fast but the sub still cruises leisurely on the surface. When the destroyer is really close it tries to back throttle at full speed but it’s too late, the sub gets rammed and sinks like a n00b. Too bad for the crew… (but it’s a ghost crew anyways !) 14 :48 The attacking sub has returned to p-depth and heads for the convoy again. I have only 4 torpedoes left and since there are still 4 damaged ships to sink, I decide to cease the attack and dive at 60m, letting what’s left of the convoy overpass me. 14 :51 Sub tries to surface but gets fired upon by destroyer. Hull explosions are heard on the sub. 14 :52 Sub returned at p-depth but is now motionless. Guess it’s gotten too many hits and is about to sink. 14 :54 Strange enough, the sub suddenly starts its engines at full speed and turns around while diving deep. Maybe it had been running silent running for a few minutes (first time I saw that !). It’s the only remaining sub of the wolfpack still visible on the nav map : the others have probably been sunk or are diving deep. Going to 150m & silent running since the escorts seem to head for my position again. Launching decoys at 100m. Altering course to let them chew the decoys peacefully. 16 :26 Lost hydrophone contact with last sub. I am about to surface to reload my external torpedoes. Convoy and escorts are gone, only the burning ships remain. 16 :32 Surfaced and reloading torpedoes 16 :44 Fired no.1 & 2 & 3 for the « coup de grace » on 3 burning ships. They all sink quickly. 17 :17 Found remaining damaged ship and fired no.5 to send her to the bottom 17 :19 Sent patrol report and commenced return run to base. No more torpedoes left. 7 ships sunk totaling 45'542 tons – but this level is definitely too easy… It appears that this particular encounter was scripted, but it definitively shows that the subs can fire torpedoes during an attack - though they only fire spreads of 4 and donno how to aim properly... I'm providing some infos if anyone wants to try it by himself: Game version : Silent Hunter 5 with latest patch Mods installed : - RemoveLogoIntroTheDarkWraith - Grossdeutscher Rundfunk - Lynchz Gramaphone - Accurate German Flags - AilGlassDropsRemoval 1.0 - AilImpurity 1.2 light - MightyFine Crew Mod 1.2.1 Alt w beards - MCCD_1.03_MFCM_1.2.1_compatible - DBSM_Speech_1_0_4 - No 1-2-3 Torpedo Alignment - sobers base wave mechanics for SH5 v3 - sobers floor rusty - Free Cam Tweak 1.1 – Regular - NewUIs_TDC_3_5_0_ByTheDarkWraith - NewUIs_TDC_3_5_0_WWIIInterface_by_naights - Advanced Shift Keys 2.1 - No Damn Bubbles, No Damn Halo Mod - More Powerful Torpedoes v1.0 - Reduced Mission Tonnage v02 - Damage assessment - 1standardmorale Campaign : BLACK PIT (just unlocked) Mission : Triumph of the wolpack : Sink 75,000 tons of Allied supplies from HX/HXF convoys using wolfpacks (that was the very 1st mission I picked in this campaign) Date : 24-25 September 1942 Difficulty : Medium (meaning : very easy) Particular aspects : - Game save was never loaded since crossing the Biscay Bay until the end of the attack ; - stayed at attack scope station / nav map / external cam during almost the entire attack, scope was extended most of the time ; - submerged immediately after spotting the first escort and only resurfaced when the battle was over. Hope this helps! Last edited by Lemke; 08-05-10 at 01:43 PM. |
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#12 |
Ace of the Deep
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Wow! What an intense read! Very cool!
![]() Can you direct their firing? As in your aim is theirs? Have you tried that? |
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#13 |
Stinking drunk in Trinidad
![]() Join Date: Jan 2010
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Hmmh, I am confused. Was that while playing the campaign, or was that a separate single mission? Would be interesting how much of that was scripted, and how much AI could do itself.
This could give a hint whether AI for subs/wolfpacks will need developer involvement (patch, addon) to get into a proper state, or whether it is not that far of and can be modded through the AI functions. It would be awesome if this feature would be working as it should. This is really the only thing I am missing with SHIII.
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Scientific facts are not determined by the opinion of the majority, nor by a democratic vote. |
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#14 |
Sea Lord
![]() Join Date: Mar 2010
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Sorry, but I don't buy this. Maybe TDW now he is pretty deep into the AI scripts can confirm this... the AI sub can NOT fire, no matter if is torpedo or gun, they are not instructed to do so. I'm not sure where I was reading this to give a proper quote, but the script for the AI sub are set to evasive maneuvers, not a line about fighting back.
To go more further, I also made a custom mission where I put a wolpack in front of 2 retard merchants. At first contact, all subs submerged and sailed away on max speed. So again.. I don't buy these stories. |
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#15 | |||
Watch
![]() Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 29
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![]() Quote:
It was while playing the campaign, the part called "The Black Pit". You have to talk to the officer in port and pick up a mission on the nav map before sailing out of the base. The mission I picked is called "Triumph of the wolpack" (Sink 75,000 tons of Allied supplies from HX/HXF convoys using wolfpacks). Remember, I'm using the "Reduced Mission Tonnage" mod, so the decription of the mission might differ from the stock version... Quote:
![]() I didn't pretend that the torpedoes were aimed at the direction I was looking at. I was just questioning if there was a relation between these two facts... It might well just be a coincidence. Quote:
I have saved the game just before making contact with the convoy, so I'll try to launch a second attack this weekend. I'm using a macbookpro laptop with windows xp installed, and the keyboard doesn't have the usual "print screen" key. So I had to figure out how to take screenshots on my apple computer running window$... Problem solved now (MWSnap installed to change the shortcut key), which means I'll try to post some pictures next time (if I can manage to spot the AI torpedoes again!). I have already tried to reload my saved game, and both the wolfpack and the convoy are where they are supposed to be. The saved game is, thanks to god, working. Last edited by Lemke; 08-07-10 at 09:52 AM. |
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