[REL] Tutorial for tracking with sonar - Page 3

Hitman · 01-30-10, 04:20 AM

Quote:

I think that all of you interested in these kind of stuff will find the original (and official) US Navy Department Maneuvering Board Manual of 1941 (!!) an interesting read (and adaptable to SH4's map/navigation tools)

WOW amazing find man, love it!! This should get into the sticky for resources

Pisces · 01-30-10, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman

WOW amazing find man, love it!! This should get into the sticky for resources

How about lobbying with Neal to get a seperate section in the downloads department of this site. Also for for the whizwheel-thingies like you made and similar game-external thing.

XLjedi · 01-30-10, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pisces

How about lobbying with Neal to get a seperate section in the downloads department of this site. Also for for the whizwheel-thingies like you made and similar game-external thing.

I was told that's what the "Utilities" section is for...

Pisces · 01-30-10, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronblood

I was told that's what the "Utilities" section is for...

I see, ...now.

Platapus · 01-30-10, 02:44 PM

Thanks for posting this technique (Coughcoughstickycoughcough)

On paper, a tool called a 10 point divider could be used for this. The concept of a 10 point divider is that no matter how wide it is extended, each point still remains in the same proportion.

http://www.landfallnavigation.com/n1188.html For a picture of what I am talking about.

A proportional divider, which has only two points, could also be used, but a 10 point divider makes it a lot easier.

It would be awesome of some smart modder could introduce a 10 point divider (or any other number) in to the plotting tools in the game.

I *think* the game 688 attack sub had it (but it could have been Fast Attack, I get them confused sometime). So I know it is possible to code. Whether it can be coded in to SH3/4 is another story.

Your way of using the circle function is innovative and imaginative. Well done!

My only issue is trying to do these steps while the game is running. Remember I am not that smart.

Tools that will help the player implement these techniques in the game are what is needed when .. ahem.. newer versions of submarine simulators are being designed.

I will be trying your method of altering the speed of the submarine. That never occurred to me. It is counter intuitive. I have always tried NOT to alter my speed.

Thanks for setting me straight.

And much thanks for taking the time to put together a nice easy to follow PDF.

jerm138 · 01-30-10, 04:07 PM

Platapus,
Thanks for the compliments. I can't take credit for the ideas though... they're all from other people... I just took them all and organized them into one spot.

Quote:

My only issue is trying to do these steps while the game is running.

When you go to the plot, you can pause the game and still use all the drawing tools. Some may say that this is "cheating" but I disagree since the Skipper wouldn't really be plotting anyway.

XLjedi · 01-30-10, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerm138

When you go to the plot, you can pause the game and still use all the drawing tools. Some may say that this is "cheating" but I disagree since the Skipper wouldn't really be plotting anyway.

Whether you're the captain or not, realtime is realtime. If you take off the captain hat for a moment and become the tracking party, you should be able to pull off the plots in realtime.

A fairer argument might be that because you have to use the limited drawing tools it takes longer than it would in realtime, therefore it's not so much cheating as leveling the playing field.

jerm138 · 01-31-10, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronblood

Whether you're the captain or not, realtime is realtime. If you take off the captain hat for a moment and become the tracking party, you should be able to pull off the plots in realtime.

When you become the tracking party and stay in real-time, who is the captain? By pausing while plotting, you're making it possible to play 2 roles simultaneously, instead of having the captain "disappear" for a few minutes.

It's all a matter of personal preference, though.

I'm goin' down · 01-31-10, 08:49 AM

Radarman: Enemy contact, captain. Sounds like a BB.

I'm goin' down (with captain's hat on backwards): get MoBo out and give me course, bearng, and range. We're goin' to sink that sucker...Yea!

I'm goin' down (doffs captain's hat, and dons MoBo hat): 10 degrees, 190 degrees, 3,000 yds.

I'm goin' down: (discards MoBo hat, and is now hatless): where the hell is my captain's hat.

Ensign: The mascot ran off with it.

I'm goin' down (still hatless): The Yamato is getting away, damn it. We can't fire torpedoes until I am wearing the Captain's hat.

Radarman: Sound contact lost sir.

I'm goin' down: @!%#&*

XLjedi · 01-31-10, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerm138

When you become the tracking party and stay in real-time, who is the captain? By pausing while plotting, you're making it possible to play 2 roles simultaneously, instead of having the captain "disappear" for a few minutes.

It's all a matter of personal preference, though.

...and what duties would the captain be performing in this simulation in the meantime? Not much. Maybe ordering one or two course changes?
You're at depth, the captain is basically looking over the shoulder of the tracking party.

jerm138 · 01-31-10, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronblood

...and what duties would the captain be performing in this simulation in the meantime?

Time compressing!!

Soundman · 12-28-10, 05:17 PM

This is outstanding, very informative and well explained.

It's given me a new insight on using sonar with SH4. What amazes me most, is that while viewing this, it occured to me that the theory is no different than using the TMA analysis in modern sims, such as "Janes 688i" or "Dangerous Waters" where we align the arrow and dots to arrive at the most probable solution.

The only difference being that in SH4 we do the plotting on the map ourselves, whereas with the modern sims the plotting is already done for us (and of course better and more sensors). I just never visualised the TMA plot in Dangerous Waters as a "map plot". I just never made the connection, but in reality it's the same thing, it just looks different!

Thanks for your efforts. You know.....I gotta say.... This community is fortunate to have such smart people within these forums. Certainly above average intelligence !

Pisces · 12-31-10, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundman

This is outstanding, very informative and well explained.

It's given me a new insight on using sonar with SH4. What amazes me most, is that while viewing this, it occured to me that the theory is no different than using the TMA analysis in modern sims, such as "Janes 688i" or "Dangerous Waters" where we align the arrow and dots to arrive at the most probable solution.

The only difference being that in SH4 we do the plotting on the map ourselves, whereas with the modern sims the plotting is already done for us (and of course better and more sensors). I just never visualised the TMA plot in Dangerous Waters as a "map plot". I just never made the connection, but in reality it's the same thing, it just looks different!

Thanks for your efforts. You know.....I gotta say.... This community is fortunate to have such smart people within these forums. Certainly above average intelligence !

There is still an important difference with the procedure shown in the document of the first message. In that document, for it to work, all first 4 bearinglines (3 real plus 1 imaginary) need to be taken from the same position, ownship should be nearly motionless. Whereas in 688i and DW and Subcommand the lines are plotted as ownship moves. The document is a clearly defined geometrical procedure to get the correct course and speed. But the TMA station in 688i, SC and DW is a bit more trial and error involved to get the dots aligned.

rokoeh · 12-20-13, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerm138

I created a new tutorial on tracking and intercepting ships using hydrophone readings.

The concepts are not my own, but I thought it would be helpful to have a clear and concise tutorial on using this technique, and the theory behind it.

You can download the tutorial here (683k .pdf on FileFront)

If you see any mistakes or have a difficult time understanding it, please let me know so I can fix it.

So guys... The download link its broken... Can I download this anywhere else?

Harald_Lange · 07-04-14, 11:27 AM

Quote:

So guys... The download link its broken... Can I download this anywhere else?

Second that! Any links guys?

01-30-10, 02:44 PM	#35
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,361 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Thanks for posting this technique (Coughcoughstickycoughcough) On paper, a tool called a 10 point divider could be used for this. The concept of a 10 point divider is that no matter how wide it is extended, each point still remains in the same proportion. http://www.landfallnavigation.com/n1188.html For a picture of what I am talking about. A proportional divider, which has only two points, could also be used, but a 10 point divider makes it a lot easier. It would be awesome of some smart modder could introduce a 10 point divider (or any other number) in to the plotting tools in the game. I think the game 688 attack sub had it (but it could have been Fast Attack, I get them confused sometime). So I know it is possible to code. Whether it can be coded in to SH3/4 is another story. Your way of using the circle function is innovative and imaginative. Well done! My only issue is trying to do these steps while the game is running. Remember I am not that smart. Tools that will help the player implement these techniques in the game are what is needed when .. ahem.. newer versions of submarine simulators are being designed. I will be trying your method of altering the speed of the submarine. That never occurred to me. It is counter intuitive. I have always tried NOT to alter my speed. Thanks for setting me straight. And much thanks for taking the time to put together a nice easy to follow PDF. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

01-31-10, 08:49 AM	#39
I'm goin' down Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Notify command we have entered the Grass Sea Posts: 2,822 Downloads: 813 Uploads: 0	Attack run overheard on the USS Barbarinna Radarman: Enemy contact, captain. Sounds like a BB. I'm goin' down (with captain's hat on backwards): get MoBo out and give me course, bearng, and range. We're goin' to sink that sucker...Yea! I'm goin' down (doffs captain's hat, and dons MoBo hat): 10 degrees, 190 degrees, 3,000 yds. I'm goin' down: (discards MoBo hat, and is now hatless): where the hell is my captain's hat. Ensign: The mascot ran off with it. I'm goin' down (still hatless): The Yamato is getting away, damn it. We can't fire torpedoes until I am wearing the Captain's hat. Radarman: Sound contact lost sir. I'm goin' down: @!%#&*

12-28-10, 05:17 PM	#42
Soundman Commodore Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Orlando, Fl Posts: 617 Downloads: 60 Uploads: 0	This is outstanding, very informative and well explained. It's given me a new insight on using sonar with SH4. What amazes me most, is that while viewing this, it occured to me that the theory is no different than using the TMA analysis in modern sims, such as "Janes 688i" or "Dangerous Waters" where we align the arrow and dots to arrive at the most probable solution. The only difference being that in SH4 we do the plotting on the map ourselves, whereas with the modern sims the plotting is already done for us (and of course better and more sensors). I just never visualised the TMA plot in Dangerous Waters as a "map plot". I just never made the connection, but in reality it's the same thing, it just looks different! Thanks for your efforts. You know.....I gotta say.... This community is fortunate to have such smart people within these forums. Certainly above average intelligence ! __________________ RVAH-9 RA-5C Vigilante at NAS Sanford, Fl 1966 The coolest plane few have heard of!