TDC reset, how do you do it?

[Trout]

If I want to attack two ships in a convoy, how do I reset my TDC between shots?
(I'm using full manual targeting)

It always seems my target values for the second ship are WAY off, as the torpedos go in odd directions.

Trout

[mookiemookie]

Be sure to turn off your position keeper after shooting at the first ship.

[Trout]

thats it? Just turn off the PK?

[Bando]

Yep, punch in the new values for the second one, engage, good to go

[tater]

The PK can be extremely useful, and also can result in wasting torps if you are being sloppy. I set up a second target quickly after shooting 3 tubes, and forgot to reset the PK. I sent a new spread into the burning wreck of a small passenger liner, lol.

It is cool though. Say you fire a couple fish at a merchant, then quickly set up on another in the group. Until you reset the PK, you are still aimed (gyro wise) at the 1st target, if the first fish premature, you can just shoot more at the standing PK evolving until you reset.

tater

I'm just curious but wouldn't entering the range, speed and AOB of a new target effectively reset it with the new target data ?

Or do you really have to click on the red light to make it go off and on again ?

I seem to be doing quite well just by inputting the new target data.

[maerean_m]

Originally Posted by Trout

It always seems my target values for the second ship are WAY off, as the torpedos go in odd directions.

The position keeper must be activated only when you have sent fresh information to TDC: range & bearing, speed & AOB.

So after you sink a ship, you deactivate the PK and only reactivate it after you have completely described the new target.

Otherwise, your torpedoes will go in odd direction because after you send the first range measurement, the PK will change the TDC data using the last's ship AOB and speed. And there can be many seconds until you determine the new AOB and speed.

Remember: the Position Keeper was a mechanical calculator with toothed wheels, not a wizard, able to eliminate the bad targeting techniques. Its only purpose was to evolve the mathematical equation of the target's trajectory, but only after you have solved it at least once. This only allows for fewer raisings of the scope to avoid unnecessary exposure.

[WernerSobe]

You dont need to reset it at all.

Just aim for next vessel and put in new data. You must make sure the target was identified and that you send the range last.

This is why it works: PK can be corrected on the fly. That means when its running and you are not happy with something like the speed or AoB, you can just put new data and the position keeper will update the solution. You can also update the ships actual location by sending new bearing and range to position keeper.

Sending range also provides bearing where your periscope optics are aiming at. So sending AoB will just update the solution with new AoB. Sending Speed will update the solution with just new speed. Sending Range will update the Solution with bearing and range so basicly it will provide a new location.

You dont need to reset it at all.

Just aim for next vessel and put in new data. You must make sure the target was identified and that you send the range last.

This is why it works: PK can be corrected on the fly. That means when its running and you are not happy with something like the speed or AoB, you can just put new data and the position keeper will update the solution. You can also update the ships actual location by sending new bearing and range to position keeper.

Sending range also provides bearing where your periscope optics are aiming at. So sending AoB will just update the solution with new AoB. Sending Speed will update the solution with just new speed. Sending Range will update the Solution with bearing and range so basicly it will provide a new location.

A have to agree, this is exactly how i've been doing it and i've had complete success. I fire at one tagert, leave the PK on, ID new target then send range and aob, wait a few seconds, then send range again and get speed estimate (of course I may already know the speed i.e convoy) and enter it.

The PK then has enough info to accurately track the new target....without ever turning PK off.

EDIT: I only use manual targeting.

[maerean_m]

You're right.

... If you're fast in getting the new data for the TDC.


Let us suppose you attack a ship that's going to the left, fast. You sink it.


After that, let us suppose you attack a ship that's going to the right, fast. If you leave the PK on and you do 2 range measurements and then estimate speed (but you are not so fast in using the game's interface), by the time you send the new AOB to the TDC the position keeper has already moved your target far away to the left, although the new ship is going to the right.

So you always need to do a last range&bearing measurement before you start launching torpedoes OR you turn the PK off until you completely resend all data to the TDC.

Phew...thanks maerean_m, thought I was going mad there for a moment.

I tend to:
1) take 1st range/bearing, send to TDC
2) Estimate AOB, send to TDC
3) take 2nd range/bearing, send to TDC
4) Get Speed estimate.

I do (1) and (2) very quickly, then wait for (3). I also tend to repeat (3) and (4) a couple of times to get a good speed estimate.

I also always do a final (1) and (2) before firing torpedo. Probably not the best tactics but they worked well for me in SH3.

[Chakal]

Originally Posted by WernerSobe

You dont need to reset it at all.

Just aim for next vessel and put in new data. You must make sure the target was identified and that you send the range last.

This is why it works: PK can be corrected on the fly. That means when its running and you are not happy with something like the speed or AoB, you can just put new data and the position keeper will update the solution. You can also update the ships actual location by sending new bearing and range to position keeper.

Sending range also provides bearing where your periscope optics are aiming at. So sending AoB will just update the solution with new AoB. Sending Speed will update the solution with just new speed. Sending Range will update the Solution with bearing and range so basicly it will provide a new location.

So if I understand, you need to update the AOB for each targets you are aiming to! Even in Convoy??

In SH3, in a convoy situation, the TDC was linked with the periscope ( red/green nob). After you had find the AOB for one target, you had just to point another target with the periscope to get and updated AOB for that target.

And in the "Fast 90" targeting way, where you set ur course perpendiculary to the course of the target with AOB = 90 ( port or Starb..) at bearing 0, the AOB of the target was updated only by pointing it with the periscope.

This option of linking or unlinking the TDC with the periscope was very usefull in SH3, specialy in a "sonar only attack" or a Sub vs Sub fight where you conduct ur attack only from the attack map with the TDC unlinked to the periscope. It was then possible to enter a bearing in the TDC only by turning its nob.

So all this is absent in SH4 ??

Is it possible to enter a bearing directly in the TDC without using periscope or the "send to TDC" button from the sonar ?

Im new to SH4 ( got my copy only 2 days ago) and I dont understand yet how the position Keeper works. Maybe thats why the Note Pad miss me that much...lol

[Joe S]

I am still experimenting with TDC procedure and havent found one yet that I really like. My main objection is the inability to manually set the range. If there is a way to do it, I would apprecitat it if someone could let me know. For example, in the rare case where you actually have time to track a target for a while, if the tdc plot is not tracking properly and you know your solution needs adjustment, you can manually adjust the aob and speed estimates, but there is no way to make an adjustment for the range, because as far as I can tell, the only way to enter range is by the split image method, and if your boat is bouncing and you get a result you know is not correct, you are stuck with it until you get a chance to do it over, which means exposing the scope more than you want to. Joe S

[Frederf]

You can enter a manual range by dragging the bug on the TDC wheel, unfortunately it has a limit of ~1200 yards when setting manually.

The PK doesn't need to be turned off and on or reset between changing targets and entering new target data neccisarily BUT BE AWARE the data you enter is going to be evolved from the second you enter it.

So maybe the old data was:
Bearing 30 degrees
Range 300 yards
AOB 90 Right
Speed 21 kts

And the new data is:
Bearing 0 degrees
Range 1000 yards
AOB 0 degrees
Speed 2 kts

The second you update the bearing/range, the PK will try to evolve your data according to its picture in the middle of your update process. So it'll think briefly that the target is ahead of you, abeam, and going very fast to the right, screwing up the nice correct data you inputted before you update the AOB and Speed.

[Trout]

so, to summarize....


As long as you get a final range reading and send it to the TDC before firing, you can just leave the PK on.

Sending range data is how the TDC knows the bearing to target (cool to know, since now I'll try some snap shots!)

Trout