[REL] Trigger Maru Overhauled

[Ducimus]

Just because you don't see contact reports, doesn't mean there isn't any traffic. Early war, you'll see more single merchants then convoys. As the war progresses, you'll see more convoys and less singles.

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by Quagmire

While we are on the subject of career ending events how about those nasty minefields. There is nothing more depressing than coming out of 1024x TC to a demolished boat.

However.....



Is it realistic for a minefield to be in over 1000 ft of open ocean? That must be one heck of an anchor chain for each mine! I would expect the shallows to be heavily mined but this seems a little far fetched.

Or I could be wrong. Opinions anyone?

Mod list follows...
TriggerMaru_Overhaul_19
TMO_Aft_deckguns
TMO19_Patch_25012010
TMO19_interior3d_GATO_overhaul
TMO_Sample_Emblem
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Hey Ducimus, I hope your camping trip went well. While you were out I was wondering about all the mines in deep water off the coast of Japan. What are your thoughts on this? Was this your intention or is it left over from stock?

Thanks again dude!
.

[Ducimus]

Honestly, im not sure if i want to yank 'em out or not. I opened the file the other day, had my finger hovering above the delete key, then changed my mind at the last minute and closed the file. The minefields were placed there in stock, i reworked them later on. It's hard to find info on historic minefield location, but what i have been able to find on my own, they might be correct. So i have to wonder if the location is correct, but the map elevations are not. I really don't know. So im undecided on it, believe it or not.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Just because you don't see contact reports, doesn't mean there isn't any traffic. Early war, you'll see more single merchants then convoys. As the war progresses, you'll see more convoys and less singles.

Well, i didn't see one single mark on the map within over one month of gameplay...

... does that sound unusual?

br morph

[ShadowWolf Kell]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Well, i didn't see one single mark on the map within over one month of gameplay...

... does that sound unusual?

br morph

Not necessarily.

I just finished a patrol in a Porpoise in early '42 and spent some time doing barrier patrols (basically defensive) near Java. I ran into several CLs and escorts initially, but went over a month with no contacts afterwards.

I set course towards the northern tip of Borneo so I could come back down through the Celebes and the Makassar Strait enroute to my last patrol objective. The only contacts I ran into turned out to be friendlies. It was till I got further south that I started to run into enemy shipping. I spent all of Feb with nothing to shoot at.

The irony was near the map point Flag (just south of it) and encountering a massive IJN task force. Heavy rain. Heavy fog. No torpedos (I bet they'd have been duds anyway!) At least 2-3 BBs, 4 CLs and 4 CAs heading west toward Java. Never seen IJN forces that far south near Australia before. A few days just shy of April 1st (March 29th to be exact.)

[ShadowWolf Kell]

Ducimus, I noticed something interesting with how the game handles new commands.

When I get one, I try to pick one from the list that corresponds to the date in the game. I just browse the roster file and then look at the commisioning date, then double check online for the time period. The problem here is that the game actually seems to go by comissioning date, rather than the actual date it arrived in Hawaii (which often was months later.)

I know it's a minor nitpick, but I figured I'd bring it up.

[trebby]

Thanks Ducimus,

After being away from the game for some time, TMO got me playing again. Thanks,

trebb.

[TheBeast]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Well, i didn't see one single mark on the map within over one month of gameplay...

... does that sound unusual?

br morph

Historically there was not many Merchant ships sunk from War start to late 1942. This may have been because Merchant Raiding was not really accepted by the US Submarine Commanders until late 1942 or early 1943 time period rather then lack of target availability. The order was given within hours of the Pearl Harbor attack. to attack any Japanese ships but Sub Commanders, more often then not, did not actively hunt merchant shipping in the early war time period. There are several sources that can confirm this.
ALL ship logs I have seen online have been doctored. These online logs only show patrol highlights and are missing days and even weeks at a time from the logs and I know that the ship log is updated when anything happens, even when Parker farts. Every Dive/Surface Date/Time, amount of time surfaced, amount of time submerged, course change, contact etc. is logged.

[razark]

Originally Posted by TheBeast

Historically there was not many Merchant ships sunk from War start to late 1942. This may have been because Merchant Raiding was not really accepted by the US Submarine Commanders until late 1942 or early 1943 time period rather then lack of target availability. The order was given within hours of the Pearl Harbor attack. to attack any Japanese ships but Sub Commanders, more often then not, did not actively hunt merchant shipping in the early war time period. There are several sources that can confirm this.
ALL ship logs I have seen online have been doctored. These online logs only show patrol highlights and are missing days and even weeks at a time from the logs and I know that the ship log is updated when anything happens, even when Parker farts. Every Dive/Surface Date/Time, amount of time surfaced, amount of time submerged, course change, contact etc. is logged.

The commanders during the opening months of the war were also trained with pre-war doctrine. These were the guys who were trained with submarines being thought of as scouting units, to remain hidden. I've read accounts that during training, a commander that allowed his scope to be seen during an attack was quite likely to be relieved of his command. They were trained to make completely submerged attacks based on sonar data, which did not lead to much, if any, success.

After these commanders started moving up, or were relieved for lack of success, etc., they were replaced by younger officers. The younger officers were less ingrained with the "hide, don't get spotted" mentality. They were more aggressive, more willing to take risks, more willing to do what needed to be done to sink enemy ships.

In addition, as the war developed, so did intelligence gathering. The commanders were better able to predict where to find the targets. Furthermore, the later commanders built upon what success the earlier commanders had. They had been the junior officers on early patrols. They had seen what worked, and what didn't. They had the benefit of trying new things, because they knew the old methods weren't bringing in the tonnage. They knew how different a war patrol was from a training cruise. Those in command at the beginning of the war only knew peacetime operations.

However, I'm sure the pre-war commanders did have some of the aversion to merchant raiding you mentioned. The fleet boats were designed, built, and trained for a completely different mission. While the boats were capable of their new missions, it took some time for the men to adjust to it.

Try this book for a look at some of these issues. It covers the early patrols of the Wahoo, before Morton took command. It discusses the problems the younger officers had with the commander, and how things changed when Morton took over.

[TheBeast]

I noticed that you are able to navigate with pin point accuracy. There are no roads, no street signs, no paths to follow at sea. There is no GPS in place during this time period. In reality ships could be several miles off course after crossing the pacific but in game, navigation is almost perfect. Tracking course, speed and Ocean currents on the Navigation Charts give a close estimate to actual position (within a several miles). Ships most likely also had a Sextant, Clock and Compass (Also not to accurate) but the best way to get a fix on their current location was to surface and use the radio directional antenna to triangulate their position from known, fixed point location radio stations. Even using the directional antenna, navigation could be off by a few miles.
Is there any way to do something about Navigation accuracy in game?

-TheBeast

[razark]

I remember reading something about this in the original Silent Hunter. Someone came up with the idea of doing it.

Basically, you only view the map at high zoom levels, so that you cannot locate your position. You use paper charts to plot your position based on a known fix, and dead reckon based off of course and speed. I imagine that this was easier to do with SH1, as there were patrol areas scattered about the Pacific, each with it's own map. SH4 would be a problem, because your charts would need to cover a much larger area, and would need to be large enough to be useful. That's a lot of paper.

To obtain a known position fix, you would need to simulate sun/star sightings. When the sky is clear, of course, you zoom out far enough, or you look up your latitude/longitude, and plot the correct position on the paper chart.

[ShadowWolf Kell]

Originally Posted by razark

Try this book for a look at some of these issues. It covers the early patrols of the Wahoo, before Morton took command. It discusses the problems the younger officers had with the commander, and how things changed when Morton took over.

That's a great way to describe it. Especially since Wahoo later ended up becoming infamous within the US Submarine Force that many looked up to.

Morton blended a lot of abilities together that really fit the nature of the Pacific war, most notably his aggressiveness. That's a pivotal point compared to the old guard and is really the deciding factor of what shaped the Submarine force into what it eventually became.

Ironically, Morton's own XO was relieved of command for some of the same reasons mentioned, and was replaced with Dick O'Kane who was even more aggressive than Morton was.

Carriers suffered a similar situation prior to the war, even after demonstrating that a single carrier could recon and effectively destroy an entire BB task force. That was even despite the early limitations of carrier aircraft.

Nimitz taking command of the Pacific, and specific key events really helped brush aside many old ways of thinking. It just took awhile. Midway was the turning point in a great many ways.

[Sub Sailor]

If you read Clay Blair Jr. excellent book Silent Victory, avilable from the USNI Library and possibly Amzon you will find that in the earlier months that Sub Skippers were extremely conservative. They spent a lot of time submerged, made sonar attacks from a fairly deep depth.
When Lockwood, Christie, and Fife began to relieve CO's and replace them with younger CO's the sinkings went up. They were still plagued with the lousey torpedoes but were more successful as the younger aggressive CO's took over.

Ron Banks MMCM(SS), USN(Ret)

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by ShadowWolf Kell

That's a great way to describe it. Especially since Wahoo later ended up becoming infamous within the US Submarine Force that many looked up to.

Morton blended a lot of abilities together that really fit the nature of the Pacific war, most notably his aggressiveness. That's a pivotal point compared to the old guard and is really the deciding factor of what shaped the Submarine force into what it eventually became.

Ironically, Morton's own XO was relieved of command for some of the same reasons mentioned, and was replaced with Dick O'Kane who was even more aggressive than Morton was.

Carriers suffered a similar situation prior to the war, even after demonstrating that a single carrier could recon and effectively destroy an entire BB task force. That was even despite the early limitations of carrier aircraft.

Nimitz taking command of the Pacific, and specific key events really helped brush aside many old ways of thinking. It just took awhile. Midway was the turning point in a great many ways.

As I recall Morton came on the Wahoo when O'Kane was already XO to do his PCO under the skipper of the Wahoo. I can't remember his name, but O'Kane thought him cautious on the patrol before Mush arrived. That patrol the Skipper actually sunk a jap sub and a few others, but it took a severe emotional toll on him. He still let some ships pass. O'Kane almost pushed his luck too much with this skipper and Mush had to keep him calm. The skipper on the way back talked to O'Kane and told him it was his last patrol, that he didn't have it in him and Mush took over the Wahoo with O'Kane as his XO.

[CaptianT]

I can't seem to find the the range and milage icons on the TMO 1.9 version that I just installed. Were these taken out or do I have something messed up in my install? Everything else seems to be working fine execpt this one item. Without these icons, I don't have any idea as to when I need to head back to port so I don't run out of fuel.

Thanks in advance.

Best regards.