[REL] Open Horizons II

[pedrobas]

Originally Posted by sober

I agree the AI subs are lame but at least i can attack while the escorts kill the AI subs . I like that part .

[Tolkemec]

Hello... Is there a special mission in OHII coastal waters? I checked the request mission box in the bunker scene (that's what I am supposed to do to get the mission?) But only get the classical 'patrol area'...

[Stormfly]

Originally Posted by gap

So do I... anyway, after reading the last posts in this thread, I think that what Trevally is working on is already a big step forward. Keep on your good work mate, you make me feel like giving SH5 a second chance!

...dont get me wrong, i highly appreciate Travally`s work, his changes to the campaign have nothing to do with the "smart" ai Kaleun`s, and what TDW did with the ai sub`s is experimentel and not a finished job, so i can only pray that TDW will use his magic to make them more beliveable.

...there is another technical problem with them, they share some player subs internal diving sound triggers, means this sounds are played in your sub if one of them dive.

[Trevally.]

Ok Guys - thanks for the feedback.
Where you using the second test stormfly?

For me yes the AI tactics are not great and a few subs surface and get killed - but many do get through and attack a few times.
I have tested version2 3 times now and each time over half the convoy was killed.

Now from inside my sub this all looks quite good - but i guess from the ext cam you can see AI errors.

I do not want to dumb down the campaign.

[Trevally.]

Originally Posted by pedrobas

Version 1.7 will now be finished sooner than I thought - I will sent it to you when ready for your magamod

[Stormfly]

Originally Posted by Trevally.

Ok Guys - thanks for the feedback.
Where you using the second test stormfly?

For me yes the AI tactics are not great and a few subs surface and get killed - but many do get through and attack a few times.
I have tested version2 3 times now and each time over half the convoy was killed.

Now from inside my sub this all looks quite good - but i guess from the ext cam you can see AI errors.

I do not want to dumb down the campaign.

yes, i thing the best expirience is not using the extended cam at all, especially if you attack with this folks arround, but if you have to test something you have to use it...

sorry, i had no time testing the second version, ithink it could be that i was a bit unlucky with the result of the first version (regarding ai performance).

regarding ai sub spawns, ithink it would be best, in that moment where you get the first wolfpack message (attack order), that the pack spawn out of sight.

[Trevally.]

The first version was just to find out if everyone could be guided to the correct area in the campaign (if attacks are set by map trigger - there is no point if users never enter that area) and to ensure the the other trigger work to spawn and send messages (btw in v2 I switched to TDWs radio system).

Also in version 1 the uboats are spawned on the surface in a straight line and told to charge the convoy. This was just a test.


In version 2 - I have added a better radio messages.
The uboats are split into groups and start underwater and will stay under for most to the attack (some boats will surface at some point and get killed). They will also attack from evey direction (front sides and back).
You will not see them spawn.
During the attack the side boats will fire first - followed later by the other side and then the front attack. this is the stage that you arrive.


Yesterday I made a second type where you have to find - shadow (for about a day) and guide the pack together. They will then attack - again from all side before you are allowed to stop being contack keeper and join in to mop up the last of the ships.

[Trevally.]

I was going to make another two types today but I think I will wait and see if anyone tested v2 to see what they thought.

And thanks for testing guys - I know it takes and long while to test (start new campaign and the sailing across the Atlantic). So thanks for your time


If anyone would like to test V2 just let me know and I will send the link

[Trevally.]

If fact - I will post the link for anyone to test :-

https://rapidshare.com/files/1658399...lack_pit_v2.7z

To test - OHII full is required:-
Install this test with jsgme on top of OHII and allow overwrite
start new campaign with silentotto
select the black pit
when in bunker save/load (this will ensure the new campaign start loads correctly and you can update weapons- do not patrol/dock)
Speak to officer and select objective - the triumph of the wolfpack
set of on patrol and head for the marked patrol area.
When you are 110km from area - wolfpack mission will start.

Thanks for any feedback good or bad

[THE_MASK]

I just run multiple campaigns , my normal one and a test one . When i finish with the test i delete it and carry on with the normal one . I use 1.6 full so all i do is add the test mod and enable it .

[Maki4444]

Trevally, you're helping make this the best game out there
Can't wait for 1.7

So I have been thinking again. Aaaaand well two things. How come we don't have a grid map, aaand I think that the way U-boats found targets was ba A visual contact and B radio reports.

When you look at Das Boot or read a U-boat book they just cruise around looking for visual conf, or they get accurate radio reports from oither subs or BdU of various convoys, they flank speed to the gradient and then wait for visual conf.

No disrespect to the 4 bearings method......really great work but I don't think that a U-boat just sat there listening to the hydro.....and then doing all of those triangulations.

Has this been given some thought perhaps. To add the grid map in the campaign and utilizing it??

[Luken]

Originally Posted by Maki4444

No disrespect to the 4 bearings method......really great work but I don't think that a U-boat just sat there listening to the hydro.....and then doing all of those triangulations.

Has this been given some thought perhaps. To add the grid map in the campaign and utilizing it??

I would love a grid map. But about four bearings method - it is so easy to perform once you understand it that I think you are exaggerating . People in front of monitors can do this in few minutes and trained capitans wouldn't do because this was complicated? I don't know if they knew it, but if they did, definitely they was using it.

[Trevally.]

Originally Posted by Maki4444

Trevally, you're helping make this the best game out there
Can't wait for 1.7

So I have been thinking again. Aaaaand well two things. How come we don't have a grid map, aaand I think that the way U-boats found targets was ba A visual contact and B radio reports.

When you look at Das Boot or read a U-boat book they just cruise around looking for visual conf, or they get accurate radio reports from oither subs or BdU of various convoys, they flank speed to the gradient and then wait for visual conf.

No disrespect to the 4 bearings method......really great work but I don't think that a U-boat just sat there listening to the hydro.....and then doing all of those triangulations.

Has this been given some thought perhaps. To add the grid map in the campaign and utilizing it??

Hi Maki4444

Yes there is an easier way to track down convoys without the four bearings.

Step1 draw contact line on map along and through contact bearing.
Step2 surface and run fast towards contact - after a run, dive and check hydro
Step 3 draw new line to contact and then predict where convoy is going - surface and run at that.
You can keep doing this untill you are close enough for visual.

Re: grid squares
Yes this is being worked on and I am starting to plan for it in the campaign.

See this example of the new style messages:-

Boats form group "BLITZ"
Take up possition in patrol line extending from BD4966 (46°02N 34°09W) to BD4936 (46°22N 34°09W).

[Maki4444]

Originally Posted by Trevally.

Hi Maki4444

Yes there is an easier way to track down convoys without the four bearings.

Step1 draw contact line on map along and through contact bearing.
Step2 surface and run fast towards contact - after a run, dive and check hydro
Step 3 draw new line to contact and then predict where convoy is going - surface and run at that.
You can keep doing this untill you are close enough for visual.

Re: grid squares
Yes this is being worked on and I am starting to plan for it in the campaign.

See this example of the new style messages:-

I was also thinking of "running" towards the hydro contact, I'll be trying that out from now on.

YES YES YES!!!! Oh happy day!!!
I think that the biggest draw back of SH5 compared to sh3 is the grid map. Hello realism and historical accuracy

[Maki4444]

Originally Posted by Luken

I would love a grid map. But about four bearings method - it is so easy to perform once you understand it that I think you are exaggerating . People in front of monitors can do this in few minutes and trained capitans wouldn't do because this was complicated? I don't know if they knew it, but if they did, definitely they was using it.

No no, I agree that the method is easy and accurate. What I am saying is that I am not sure weather it was used. I would love to see a document on how did the real captains actually look for ships on patrol. One thing we have is the ability to quickly erase the contact lines. I don't think they did that out of practical reasons but I don't really know.

My only wish is that sh5 becomes as true to real life as possible