[REL] Natural Sinking Mechanics

[chris455]

Wernersobe,
Well,
After playing the Torpedo tutorial featuring HIJMS Mogami about a dozen times now with NSM 1.3 it takes no fewer than 10 torpedoes to put her down, sometimes 12- that's a full loadout in a sugar boat. I admit this is better than seeing a CA go down every time after 1-2 hits (stock game) but........I hope that this can be tweaked. If memory serves, 10 torpedos put down Shinano.
Can someone else confirm?
I do believe overall that NSM is a great improvement over stock- but this newfound toughness in CA's should be dumbed down just a bit, methinks.

[tater]

Must be that model, in the test mission I sank Takao with 1 fish.

(I'm assuming all the torpedoes were modded to do damage the right way, not just mk14s)

[chris455]

Hi Tater-
I'm using RFB1.31, so the tutorial has been modded to use an S class boat equipped w/ Mk Xs.
I know the Mk X had a smaller warhead, but I think 10-12 torps to take down a Mogami may indicate a problem. I'm not talking about single instances, I'm on my 13th try with it now, same result.
It could be any number of issues, it would be nice if someone else using the latest iteration of RFB could give it a try-
Thanks for the reply

[leovampire]

looking forward to seeing it.

[Wokcus]

Originally Posted by WernerSobe

never seen something like that. Could be a compability problem with another mod? Have someone else seen that?

I'm seeing this now as well. The behavior is pretty much the same as Leo describes. I'm not running very many mods: NSM3 Classic, Living Breathing Ocean, the green lamp mod, and a bearing plotter mod (puts a compass thing around your boat on the nav map).

I installed NSM during a career, but while I was in port. I didn't see this smoke problem at all the first two days I played with NSM. I don't know if this maters, but last night I took some depth charge damage (to the deck gun and AA). I got away, and the crew repaired it, so I didn't think anything of it. Today when I loaded my game, the crew announced "we're taking damage" which I thought was pretty odd. (No damage showed on the Damage management screen). I was mostly in the nav map initially, so I didn't notice if the smoke was there when I started the game. However, I ran across a couple of merchants, torpedoed them, and got the ship sank message. I went to the free cam to enjoy the view of the sinking ships as the sun set when I noticed the smoke behind me, and quite far from the action.

I didn't think anything of it, but I've continued on and the smoke follows me everywhere just as Leo describes. On the surface or submerged it doesn't matter.

Hope this helps.

[Wokcus]

Here's a little more info on the problem with the smoke column following me around.

Everytime I load my latest save I get the "we're taking damage" message. I had recalled reading about "invisible" damage, so I downloaded the damage analyzer program. Under "Deck Watch" this program reported:

Aft Gun Deck
small leaks

The damage bar for that section was at about 25%. This made me wonder if the smoke was related to this static damage. I loaded a game from before my depth charge encounter. Unfortunately, the smoke was still there.

I loaded a save game from when I was in base, and went out on patrol and the smoke was gone. I also loaded a game from a previous patrol and no smoke.

So, I thought that it might have been the damage, but that doesn't seem to be the case. :hmm: It seems associated with that particular patrol, although I'm pretty sure I didn't have the smoke on that patrol last night.

In any event, just thought I'd toss out some more info for people to consider.

[Seaman_Hornsby]

Originally Posted by chris455

Hi Tater-
I'm using RFB1.31, so the tutorial has been modded to use an S class boat equipped w/ Mk Xs.
I know the Mk X had a smaller warhead, but I think 10-12 torps to take down a Mogami may indicate a problem. I'm not talking about single instances, I'm on my 13th try with it now, same result.
It could be any number of issues, it would be nice if someone else using the latest iteration of RFB could give it a try-
Thanks for the reply

I tried the tutorial mission last night (not using RFB) and found that it took about 5-6 Mark XIVs to sink the Mogami. Four hits spread along the hull would stop her, but she'd just lay there with a list and no indication of sinking anytime soon. One or two more torpedoes would then increase flooding and after a few more minutes waiting, she'd finally roll over and go down. Given that I sank the Takao in the NSM test mission with only two Mark XIVs, and the number of Mark Xs you used, this would seem to suggest that the Mogami is a much tougher bird than some of the other warships.

Sidenote: I played the tutorial three times to test this and on the first try I hit the target with three torpedoes and the fourth struck my after torpedo room following a circular run. This is the second one I've encountered, and the first fatal one. Oddly enough, the aft torpedo room was destroyed (100/100 damage) yet the crew there were only mildly injured. I put the damage control boys to work, but the bulkhead was wiped out and the boat was doomed. We lasted several minutes before I got the spinning death screen. Naturally, Tang and Tullibee came to mind.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Originally Posted by Wokcus

I'm seeing this now as well.

This is a strange one, I have not come across it yet.


RDP

[Wokcus]

So I finished my patrol last night. The smoke followed me throughout, all the way back to Freemantle. When I went out on the new patrol (after being in the base) the smoke was gone.

I was thinking about what was different about that particular patrol that may have triggered the problem. :hmm: As I described above, I initially thought that it might be the hidden "static" damage, but that doesn't appear to be the case. The only other thing I could think of that was different was that I sank a fishing boat, and a junk with the deck gun. I usually don't bother with them, but I'd went out of my way to investigate a radar contact, and the seas were calm so I took a little target practice.

Unfortunately, I don't have a save from before I sank those two boats, so I can't easily check this. On my current patrol I'm keeping an eye out for similar craft, but of course now that I actually want to find some I can't.

I'll post again if I find anything interesting.

[WernerSobe]

the interestning thing about it, i havent touched the damage model for the sub in no way. Ive left the sub damage portion in zones.cfg untouched and aswell didnt change anything with sub files.

And then, i have ran a couple of patrols now and also been damaged and it seems not to happen to me. Thats a problem because how could i fix it if it doesnt trigger on my machine?

Ive also sank fishing boats and junks with the deckgun. No smoke. Well let me know if you can find out what triggers the smoke for you.

[tater]

Wonder if the devs used a ship zone for a sub someplace and didn't tell us...

BTW, werner, did you see DTB's post in your thread in the general forum? Very interesting.

[wovik]

Wokcus

Sounds like you had a GHOST SHIP following you around

[PANTERA999]

Hi i have problem with gun is very strong i sink ships like med cargo with 5-6 shots in wather line. i use mod v 2.6 and instal 3.0 the torp are exelent and sinking ships

[Wokcus]

Originally Posted by WernerSobe

Thats a problem because how could i fix it if it doesnt trigger on my machine?

Oh, believe me I understand that. (I'm a EE in real life.) It wasn't my intent to complain or demand a fix. I was just posting the info where others could see it. So far it seems that leovampire and I are the only ones experiencing this problem; but if others have the same problem and read my posts maybe it will help someone figure out what's going on. My goal was simply to share info.

For now the smoke is gone, and it's a great mod. Thanks again for all your hard work. If I do figure out how to trigger that behavior, I'll be sure to post that info.

[Wulfmann]

The Shinano was sunk by 4 evenly spaced torpedo hits (USS Archerfish fired a spread of six) but the ship was incomplete and many watertight doors were left open and her skeleton crew was inexperienced.

It likely would have taken 10 torpedoes to sink the ship in true battle conditions had she been attacked fully worked up. She was on her way to the inland sea to pick up her air group and begin training and had left Tokyo for fear of her safety

Wulfmann