[REL] Natural Sinking Mechanics - Page 10

Wulfmann · 08-17-07, 08:54 PM

Tater,
I am beginning to do a check of RND files for accuracy, particularly the task force groups.
They are way off
Japs ran a decent navy and like most grouped ships by class.
With rare exceptions battleships and cruisers and even destroyers traveled with their sisters.
In the RND files Ise, Fuso and Kongo are mixed.
Didn't happen.
I changed that so it could not.
While there were rare occasions when heavy cruisers were mismatched (Savo Island Chokai led the 6 gun Aoba type cruisers) they normally stuck together.
I am also re-dating the roster so Maya is added to Takao until her damage and modding when she re-enters as a single class Maya.( I have added the names to Takao class as well as Kongo in the roster)
I have moved Mogami to enter in Jan 43.
However, in my TF groups I have left type 7s with no name so others could still see the inaccurate variation but no generic type 7 is anything but a single ship. No double Mogami or Maya groups.
I have also redone the escorts to be the more modern DDs that would have escorted such TFs.
I have eliminated multi CVEs as they were not in service in 42 save one.
As for DDs
The Minekazes and Musukis were converted to fast transports so could never have been TF escorts but I have made them the primary convoys escorts (ships used are missing from SH4) plus the fast transport roll is not done in the game as it was in real life in the Solomons.
I have no intention to offer mods in SH4 (Other games have taught me well enough the grief) but will be happy to send the stuff for you to look at and use or consider parts of in your mods.
I mean this with no disrespect. I do not care if they are not used. I will mod my version to suit history within practical limits but my intention is to play and enjoy SH4 not become a mod provider so will not be offended if nothing I make is used by anyone.
However, as it sits now 1942 is so far off it begs correction, at least in my rig.

Wulfmann

tater · 08-17-07, 09:01 PM

Better in my thread, but yeah, many of the groups have not been tweaked yet. The stock uses things like 80% chance 1xgeneric DD times 10, so I haven't gone through and changed all to 4x Same at x% chance.

I usually use minekaze for TBs and ODD substitutes as well.

As for 'TFs" remember that in game a TF is just a group that has a warshiop as the leader. I make some "convoys" in the TF layers if that seems appropriate. Ie: truk to marshalls, etc.

Haven't really gotten to "real" TFs yet, those will be scripted and based on the TROMs.

As I said in the readme, the campaign is not historical, just slightly more so, with reduced, zig-zagged traffic. It;s a practice run for a real campaiign to be built completely from scratch with more attention to TROMs etc

tater

chris455 · 08-18-07, 02:21 PM

Update on Mogami issue w/ NSM and RFB:
I installed Bandos torpedo tweak, and now Mogami will go down with as few as 4 MK 10s.
The only problem I have now, is that I am being chased by a column of smoke.
I hope we can track this bugger down

leovampire · 08-18-07, 02:34 PM

because the Dev's made it so ships and planes now react to seeing smoke from a distance after patch 1.3 so they will come take a look until it is gone or they sink you I found that out the hard way.

WernerSobe · 08-19-07, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leovampire

because the Dev's made it so ships and planes now react to seeing smoke from a distance after patch 1.3 so they will come take a look until it is gone or they sink you I found that out the hard way.

youve got something new about smoke bug?

i still couldnt trigger it on my machine. So everyone who happen to see it please try to remember what you did when it appeared. I must figure out what triggers it.

chris455 · 08-19-07, 01:18 PM

I am getting this too- (what Leovampire is reporting below)
is it fixable ?
It is a real immersion-killer. I love RSM but if this can't be removed, I won't be able to continue using it

Quote:

Originally Posted by leovampire

what is going on?

No matter where I go or how much time passes this smoke is fallowing me. As soon as one get's to the end of my visual range it reapears next to my sub on either side of it.

I have not droped a plane or sunk a ship in 14 game day's time.

leovampire · 08-19-07, 05:48 PM

it only seems to happen when you load a saved game and have some kind of damage to the sub that gets reported by the crew right at the begining of the game loadup when they say "Were taking damage Sir". Never saw it at any other time so far. But I promise to keep you informed one way or the other on all observations of it.

chris455 · 08-19-07, 07:13 PM

I have not noticed that aspect of it- I was enegaged in a convoy battle off Luzon- I am unaware that I took any damage but I was under fire. I do not recall the crew reporting that we had taken damage. Yet after sinking two CLs and an troopship, I sprouted smoke, and it followed me all the way back to Manila.

leovampire · 08-19-07, 07:30 PM

and actualy found some slight damage around the deck gun area of the sub with some minor leaks at least that is what the tool says. It is the type of damage that dosn't show up in game and can not be fixed until you return to base. But werner said he didn't touch the sub effects so I don't know why they would interrelate. So maybe there is something else going on.

Frederf · 08-19-07, 08:34 PM

I've picked up now a second following plume of smoke. I think it is tied to shooting down aircraft and some merchant encounters.

leovampire · 08-19-07, 09:53 PM

I just downed a plane and the smoke is fallowing me around now.

downed the plane at 17:11 still with me at 17:14 moving at ahead standard
in a differn't direction. just keeps reapearing close to the sub then once it
is out of visual range it reapears. And 2 plus hours lator still there so it
must be the planes.

I did find a way to make it go away though. Do a save game then load that save
and it stops. But it is still a glitch non the less.

Lt. Staumeier · 08-19-07, 11:58 PM

Nopes, it's not the planes. I've had this happen when there was nothing but destroyers around. I sank 5 of them with some cowboy shooting, and after I loaded my game I have this smoke plume following me around too. I'm damaged to some extent, but not badly.

kv29 · 08-20-07, 07:25 AM

send your savegames to werner, ASAP

Wokcus · 08-20-07, 06:23 PM

I saw the posts from leovampire and others discussing the problem where smoke follows you around. Since others are seeing this now I thought I'd give an update on my experiences.

I screwed up last night and took some depth charge damage again. Seeing Leo's post about the hidden damage being a possible trigger I was curious to see if I would have the problem when I loaded my save today. When I loaded I got the dreaded "we're taking damage sir!" message so I popped to the free camera for a look. Sure enough there was smoke, but instead of persisting and following me around, it stopped after just a few seconds. Also the smoke seemed to be coming more from the sub than my previous experience where it initially appeared off to one side a little. I used the damage analyzer to see if the damage was different than that previous time, but the analysis was exactly the same ... aft gun deck, minor leaks.

Also I loaded a save from before this damage, and I didn't see any smoke (either transient or persistent). I had previously thought that the damage was a red herring, but given Leo's posts and this experience it does seem to be related somehow, I just don't see the pattern yet.

If I gather any more info, or have an epiphany I'll be sure to post.

leovampire · 08-20-07, 06:33 PM

Okay if you look at the Zone's file where you list flooding times and effects of explosions. At the top of it there is a passage:

"It'a advisible to edit the values for parameters using the Zones Properties
; Editor. Note that the Editor doesn't provide the feature to add/delete a zone
; from [Zones List], therefore before edit the parameter for a new zone, one must
; manually add it in [Zones List] section then start the Zones Properties Editor.

That editor is in the main root directory of the game before you even go into the Data file. It is a ACT file so it will take a special program to open it one that handles that code and no HEX editor can adjust the file the way it is coded as far as I can read and tell.

All the damge and zon and zone's file's are tied to that one thing. If something is adjusted beyond the paramiters it is set for or to understand it can and probably will cause the effects that are now being experienced.

08-17-07, 08:54 PM	#136
Wulfmann Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 1,010 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Tater, I am beginning to do a check of RND files for accuracy, particularly the task force groups. They are way off Japs ran a decent navy and like most grouped ships by class. With rare exceptions battleships and cruisers and even destroyers traveled with their sisters. In the RND files Ise, Fuso and Kongo are mixed. Didn't happen. I changed that so it could not. While there were rare occasions when heavy cruisers were mismatched (Savo Island Chokai led the 6 gun Aoba type cruisers) they normally stuck together. I am also re-dating the roster so Maya is added to Takao until her damage and modding when she re-enters as a single class Maya.( I have added the names to Takao class as well as Kongo in the roster) I have moved Mogami to enter in Jan 43. However, in my TF groups I have left type 7s with no name so others could still see the inaccurate variation but no generic type 7 is anything but a single ship. No double Mogami or Maya groups. I have also redone the escorts to be the more modern DDs that would have escorted such TFs. I have eliminated multi CVEs as they were not in service in 42 save one. As for DDs The Minekazes and Musukis were converted to fast transports so could never have been TF escorts but I have made them the primary convoys escorts (ships used are missing from SH4) plus the fast transport roll is not done in the game as it was in real life in the Solomons. I have no intention to offer mods in SH4 (Other games have taught me well enough the grief) but will be happy to send the stuff for you to look at and use or consider parts of in your mods. I mean this with no disrespect. I do not care if they are not used. I will mod my version to suit history within practical limits but my intention is to play and enjoy SH4 not become a mod provider so will not be offended if nothing I make is used by anyone. However, as it sits now 1942 is so far off it begs correction, at least in my rig. Wulfmann __________________ "The right to keep and bear arms should not be infringed upon, if only to prevent tyranny in government" Thomas Jefferson,; Constitutional debates

08-18-07, 02:34 PM	#139
leovampire Eternal Patrol Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Waterbury, CT. USA Posts: 2,336 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	and that is dangerous too because the Dev's made it so ships and planes now react to seeing smoke from a distance after patch 1.3 so they will come take a look until it is gone or they sink you I found that out the hard way. __________________ AIR_BASE_NAV_MAP_MOD Reflections_on_the_Water

08-19-07, 05:48 PM	#142
leovampire Eternal Patrol Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Waterbury, CT. USA Posts: 2,336 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	WernerSobe it only seems to happen when you load a saved game and have some kind of damage to the sub that gets reported by the crew right at the begining of the game loadup when they say "Were taking damage Sir". Never saw it at any other time so far. But I promise to keep you informed one way or the other on all observations of it. __________________ AIR_BASE_NAV_MAP_MOD Reflections_on_the_Water

08-19-07, 07:30 PM	#144
leovampire Eternal Patrol Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Waterbury, CT. USA Posts: 2,336 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I used the damage anilizer mod tool available and actualy found some slight damage around the deck gun area of the sub with some minor leaks at least that is what the tool says. It is the type of damage that dosn't show up in game and can not be fixed until you return to base. But werner said he didn't touch the sub effects so I don't know why they would interrelate. So maybe there is something else going on. __________________ AIR_BASE_NAV_MAP_MOD Reflections_on_the_Water Last edited by leovampire; 08-19-07 at 09:25 PM.

08-19-07, 09:53 PM	#146
leovampire Eternal Patrol Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Waterbury, CT. USA Posts: 2,336 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Okay I can confirm Frederf findings I just downed a plane and the smoke is fallowing me around now. downed the plane at 17:11 still with me at 17:14 moving at ahead standard in a differn't direction. just keeps reapearing close to the sub then once it is out of visual range it reapears. And 2 plus hours lator still there so it must be the planes. I did find a way to make it go away though. Do a save game then load that save and it stops. But it is still a glitch non the less. __________________ AIR_BASE_NAV_MAP_MOD Reflections_on_the_Water Last edited by leovampire; 08-19-07 at 10:30 PM.

08-17-07, 09:01 PM	#137
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Better in my thread, but yeah, many of the groups have not been tweaked yet. The stock uses things like 80% chance 1xgeneric DD times 10, so I haven't gone through and changed all to 4x Same at x% chance. I usually use minekaze for TBs and ODD substitutes as well. As for 'TFs" remember that in game a TF is just a group that has a warshiop as the leader. I make some "convoys" in the TF layers if that seems appropriate. Ie: truk to marshalls, etc. Haven't really gotten to "real" TFs yet, those will be scripted and based on the TROMs. As I said in the readme, the campaign is not historical, just slightly more so, with reduced, zig-zagged traffic. It;s a practice run for a real campaiign to be built completely from scratch with more attention to TROMs etc tater

08-18-07, 02:21 PM	#138
chris455 A-ganger Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 71 Downloads: 97 Uploads: 0	Update on Mogami issue w/ NSM and RFB: I installed Bandos torpedo tweak, and now Mogami will go down with as few as 4 MK 10s. The only problem I have now, is that I am being chased by a column of smoke. I hope we can track this bugger down

08-19-07, 07:13 PM	#143
chris455 A-ganger Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 71 Downloads: 97 Uploads: 0	I have not noticed that aspect of it- I was enegaged in a convoy battle off Luzon- I am unaware that I took any damage but I was under fire. I do not recall the crew reporting that we had taken damage. Yet after sinking two CLs and an troopship, I sprouted smoke, and it followed me all the way back to Manila.

08-19-07, 08:34 PM	#145
Frederf Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 665 Downloads: 79 Uploads: 1	I've picked up now a second following plume of smoke. I think it is tied to shooting down aircraft and some merchant encounters.

08-19-07, 11:58 PM	#147
Lt. Staumeier Loader Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 85 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 0	Nopes, it's not the planes. I've had this happen when there was nothing but destroyers around. I sank 5 of them with some cowboy shooting, and after I loaded my game I have this smoke plume following me around too. I'm damaged to some extent, but not badly. __________________ "Shoot at everything that moves. If it doesn't move, shoot it anyway, it might move later."

08-20-07, 07:25 AM	#148
kv29 Watch Officer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Buenos Aires Posts: 342 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	send your savegames to werner, ASAP

08-20-07, 06:23 PM	#149
Wokcus Swabbie Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 8 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Smoke problem update I saw the posts from leovampire and others discussing the problem where smoke follows you around. Since others are seeing this now I thought I'd give an update on my experiences. I screwed up last night and took some depth charge damage again. Seeing Leo's post about the hidden damage being a possible trigger I was curious to see if I would have the problem when I loaded my save today. When I loaded I got the dreaded "we're taking damage sir!" message so I popped to the free camera for a look. Sure enough there was smoke, but instead of persisting and following me around, it stopped after just a few seconds. Also the smoke seemed to be coming more from the sub than my previous experience where it initially appeared off to one side a little. I used the damage analyzer to see if the damage was different than that previous time, but the analysis was exactly the same ... aft gun deck, minor leaks. Also I loaded a save from before this damage, and I didn't see any smoke (either transient or persistent). I had previously thought that the damage was a red herring, but given Leo's posts and this experience it does seem to be related somehow, I just don't see the pattern yet. If I gather any more info, or have an epiphany I'll be sure to post.

08-20-07, 06:33 PM	#150
leovampire Eternal Patrol Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Waterbury, CT. USA Posts: 2,336 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	there is one possability here of what might be wrong. Okay if you look at the Zone's file where you list flooding times and effects of explosions. At the top of it there is a passage: "It'a advisible to edit the values for parameters using the Zones Properties ; Editor. Note that the Editor doesn't provide the feature to add/delete a zone ; from [Zones List], therefore before edit the parameter for a new zone, one must ; manually add it in [Zones List] section then start the Zones Properties Editor. That editor is in the main root directory of the game before you even go into the Data file. It is a ACT file so it will take a special program to open it one that handles that code and no HEX editor can adjust the file the way it is coded as far as I can read and tell. All the damge and zon and zone's file's are tied to that one thing. If something is adjusted beyond the paramiters it is set for or to understand it can and probably will cause the effects that are now being experienced. __________________ AIR_BASE_NAV_MAP_MOD Reflections_on_the_Water