[REL] More realistic periscope

[Bilge_Rat]

So after having spent some time testing out the scopes in a variety of settings and comparing with the exact range as calculated with map updates "on", I can say, the ranges are right on (running at 1920x1200 w. 8:5 patch). The range as calculated from the scope is usually within 10% of the real range, although that difference has more to do with my ability to guesstimate the actual mast height against the horizontal bars.

the formulas which I use are the following:

observation scope:

1.5x - MastHeight x 100 / horizontal bars = Range

6x - MastHeight x 400 / horizontal bars = Range

Attack scope:

1.5x - MastHeight x 50 / horizontal bars = Range

6x - MastHeight x 200 / horizontal bars = Range

excellent work.

[reaper7]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

So after having spent some time testing out the scopes in a variety of settings and comparing with the exact range as calculated with map updates "on", I can say, the ranges are right on (running at 1920x1200 w. 8:5 patch). The range as calculated from the scope is usually within 10% of the real range, although that difference has more to do with my ability to guesstimate the actual mast height against the horizontal bars.

the formulas which I use are the following:

observation scope:

1.5x - MastHeight x 100 / horizontal bars = Range

6x - MastHeight x 400 / horizontal bars = Range

Attack scope:

1.5x - MastHeight x 50 / horizontal bars = Range

6x - MastHeight x 200 / horizontal bars = Range

excellent work.

Are you finding that the mast heights match those from the Cfg file the same ones as I placed onto the Recognition manual.
If so then it shows that the stadimeter is where the problem is not the stats reguarding use of the stadimeter.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by reaper7

Are you finding that the mast heights match those from the Cfg file the same ones as I placed onto the Recognition manual.
If so then it shows that the stadimeter is where the problem is not the stats reguarding use of the stadimeter.

reaper7, I have been relying only on the mast heights as shown in your enhanced recognition manual.

I am convinced there is a problem with the stadimeter.

[Arclight]

It's the Stadi that's broken, but not all the numbers in the rec manual are correct. The exceptions seem only to be for length and draft though.


As a side note; the real thing was never used at high-power to measure range, and initially I didn't set out to make them usefull at that magnification: consider it a bonus that you can in the game.


I will further finetune the .cam files, for all aspect ratios, to make them more accurate. Not that there's anything wrong at this point, but still.

I'll post some samples of the new masks in a bit, on which I'd like some feedback. Personally I think they are too dark, but it should be closer to the real thing.


Thank you Mav, for the assistance.

[Arclight]

Thumbs; click to enlarge:
Attack scope, observation scope and obs.scope + OPCF respectively.

Tell me what you think; too dark, shadows along the edge or prefer clear edge with gradual shadow (like current version). Any comments are welcome.

[PL_Andrev]

Please put at the first post the version number and changelog to follow progress of your mod, please!

[Arclight]

Changelog? Jeesh, busting my balls man, busting my balls.

I'll update thread and download titles to reflect current version, at least then you know when you're lagging behind. See what I can do about those changelogs.

[kylania]

Does the "freecam zoom" thing include the "closer to the boat" cam fix CCIP did?

These changes:

-Camera clip distance reduced to 0.25m (allows camera to get much closer to submarines/ships)
-Terrain clipping distance removed (free camera can pass through shore buildings and coastlines)

[Arclight]

Nope, is just Elanaiba's zoomable exterior cam. Which reminds me, should ask CCIP if I can integrate his tweaks with this. A lot of people are using it apparently and isn't compatible afaik.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Arclight

It's the Stadi that's broken, but not all the numbers in the rec manual are correct. The exceptions seem only to be for length and draft though.

as long as the height works, that's fine. The ship length method is only accurate at a 90 degree AOB. Plus, once you start actually looking at the numbers in the rec manual and comparaing them to what you see on the screen, instead of just blindly relying on the stadi, any number that is off will stick out.

As a side note; the real thing was never used at high-power to measure range, and initially I didn't set out to make them usefull at that magnification: consider it a bonus that you can in the game.

I had read that because of the water pressure/resistance, the perisopes which are just long tubes, would vibrate very noticably at 6x which would not make it practical for anything other than pinpointing and identifying the target. There was also problems with lenses fogging up, getting scratched.

It would be neat if we could eventually get all that into the game...not that I am suggesting extra work though..

Thank you Mav, for the assistance.

thanks everyone involved in the project, great work guys.

[Hitman]

Tell me what you think; too dark, shadows along the edge or prefer clear edge with gradual shadow (like current version). Any comments are welcome.

The real attack periscope with its thin head had a noticeable image quality (Blurr and colour) deterioration at the sides of the field of view. Aproximately 1/4 at each side would degrade the colour to blueish/turquoise, while at the centre the image was perfect.

You can achieve this effect by extending the shadow in the mask to that 1/4, and painting the main graphic dark blue in that external rim, and black in the centre. This will cause that when the mask appears in the game, you see the edges deteriorating to blue and blurred, and the centre simply with lower light level.

because of the water pressure/resistance, the perisopes which are just long tubes, would vibrate very noticably at 6x which would not make it practical for anything other than pinpointing and identifying the target. There was also problems with lenses fogging up, getting scratched.

That's pretty much the reason for the twisted cable that runs along the upper part of the tube. It changes the vibration frequency of the tube and makes it move less. In any case, yes, high speeds would mean vibration and bad image. But no captain would anyway use the scope at high speed, as the big wake would be a complete give away of his position.

One more thing about the attack scope: Because it was used sparingly and with maximum stealth (The captain would make it pop in and out the water quickly like a cork) in quick glances, the markings are simplified (1 mark per 2 mils) and overall the design is intended to simply help the intuitive feeling of proportions by the observer. It was never intended to be used as a detailed observation tool, nor to plot an enemy attack with exact observations. The commander sat there and gave quick glances to control the advance of the target in the last and closest stages of the approach, eyeballing range, AOB and speed if it had not ben already determined during the previous overhaul maneuver at surface.

In my experience, and using my own custom optics mod in SH3, once you have enough practice with this system it becomes very effective and intuitive for short ranges attacks (As will always be the submerged ones). But it requires that the user has contantly the same mod installed and monitor used, to get used to the size of the ships as presented in the screen. When you are good enough at it, however, the feeling is AMAZINGLY satisfactory

Here is a little info from the Submarine Torpedo Fire Control Manual about how to figure out the correct height to measure with the stadimeter (or in this case the graticule's)

Basicaly count the number of decks and multiply them with 8 ft. (or 2.5 meters) then measure the same decks with the graticule's you know have an estimated height of the decks and a graticule count and can then calculate the distance the usual way. Say there are 3 visible decks above the deck you then measure with the graticule from deck to the top of the 3rd deck.

Estimated real height is 3x2.5 meters
Graticules says fx. 50 (in x6 zoom)

range is then :

7.5M x 1000 / 50 * 4

= 1500 meters

The method can also be used to "check" a stadimeter reading of range for gross errors.

(g) When radar ranges cannot be obtained the Approach Officer must rely upon his ability to correctly estimate the height of the funnel or masthead, or other prominent mark on the ship's structure above the water line. If the target ship can be properly identified an accurate value may be obtained from intelligence information supplied the ship. If this is not available the
following procedure will he of assistance:

(1) Count or estimate the number of decks that are seen above the main deck.
(2) Add to this figure the approximate number of deck heights equal to the observed freeboard.
(3) Multiply the total by eight to determine the height of the top of the bridge structure above the visible waterline.
(4) Using height of bridge structure above the visible waterline as a yardstick, approximate the masthead height. The masthead heights of merchant ships are on the average about 2.1 times the bridge height (above waterline). A masthead height which appears to be shorter than normal will be about 1.7 to 1.8 times the bridge height, while one which appears to be higher than normal is approximately 2.2 to 23 times the bridge height.
(5) Funnel heights may be estimated by approximating the number of deck heights of the funnel which is seen above the top of the bridge structure and adding this height to the bridge structure height.
(6) At extreme ranges it must be remembered that the waterline is below the horizon. This necessitates estimating the position of the waterline.

(h) The following points should be kept in mind in height determination:
(1) Masthead heights may be purposely altered by the enemy to cause inaccuracies in periscope ranges.
(2) Tops of masts may be camouflaged in such a manner as to be invisible under average visibility conditions at any except short ranges.
(3) Funnel height is normally sufficient to insure that the smoke which is blown in the direction of the bridge by a tail wind will pass well over the bridge.
(4) Coal burners require taller funnels to insure adequate draft.
(5) Funnels of modern vessels having forced draft do not require as tall a funnel as older vessels without forced draft.
(6) Diesel propelled ships require no draft. Funnels are normally short, are not required, and generally have such dimensions as to provide a good appearance on the ship.

Regardless of the methods employed by the individual Approach Officer, skill in estimating masthead heights, and ability to obtain accurate ranges can be acquired and maintain only by constant practice. Even when radar ranges are available daring an approach the Approach Officer should also obtain telemeter ranges as a means of improving and maintaining his skill.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Hitman

In my experience, and using my own custom optics mod in SH3, once you have enough practice with this system it becomes very effective and intuitive for short ranges attacks (As will always be the submerged ones). But it requires that the user has contantly the same mod installed and monitor used, to get used to the size of the ships as presented in the screen. When you are good enough at it, however, the feeling is AMAZINGLY satisfactory

that is what I am aiming for.

[Frederf]

Hitman, always a pleasure to read your posts.

Chromatic aberration sounds like a very pleasant touch!

[Txema]

Very nice work !!!

Is it possible to use this mod on top of the new User Interfaces developed by TheDarkWraith ??

Or we need some changes to make them compatible?


Txema