[WIP] IRAI (Intelligent Random AI) - Page 131

gap · 01-21-13, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

The Kamikaze part only kicks in when the airplane is highly damaged. If you think about when would this happen? When the airplane is on an attack run on the enemy. This kamikaze part just makes sure the airplane won't try to run away when it's highly damaged but instead continue on it's course.

Do you mean so damaged that it wouldn't be able to return to base anyway?

TheDarkWraith · 01-21-13, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap

Do you mean so damaged that it wouldn't be able to return to base anyway?

I made it so that if the damage was > 85% the airplane would kamikaze because at that point it's basically unflyable. At 50% it calls off the fight and resumes following waypoints.

gap · 01-21-13, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

I made it so that if the damage was > 85% the airplane would kamikaze because at that point it's basically unflyable. At 50% it calls off the fight and resumes following waypoints.

I suppose that at 85% hp, the plane would hardly glide toward us.

If, as I hope, my conjecture is true, it woul reduce the probability of an heavily damaged plane hitting its target, thus adding an extra randomness factor.

I will carry some tests to ascertain it

Tonci87 · 01-21-13, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

The Kamikaze part only kicks in when the airplane is highly damaged. If you think about when would this happen? When the airplane is on an attack run on the enemy. This kamikaze part just makes sure the airplane won't try to run away when it's highly damaged but instead continue on it's course.

Oh OK, that sounds good!

gap · 01-21-13, 05:56 PM

planes don't attack with v0.0.39

experience with this mission used by me and Volodya for many tests on flak guns settings. With previous version of IRAI the plane attacks as supposed

gap · 01-21-13, 06:27 PM

quick update:

if attacked, the plane responds to fire and becomes aggressive. If not attacked, it just flies over the sub, ignoring it.

Moreover, please have a look to this screenie:

Left wing on fire, yet the Hurricane kept attacking for several dives

gap · 01-21-13, 06:59 PM

second update: this time the Hurrican took the offensive before being fired on. After all it seems I rushed to much with my first report

Again, it keept attacking after getting damaged, though this time it was a lesser serious damage.

P.S: could be unrelated but during the last two tests the game ctd'ed while I was observing the scene with the binocular.

Never happened before with the same mission, and I played it tens of times

I will keep you informed on any further test I will carry on.

P.S: it might be just my impression, but it seems that after enabling this last version of IRAI airplane's strategy became more varied. Now it changes elevation much more than before, and it approaches the U-boat from more varied angles

01-21-13, 09:57 PM

I'm not sure if I experienced my first IRAI event today. Was chasing ship in a really nasty storm. I get about 500m off her (yea it was that dark and hard to see). She wasn't flying a flag. I was perplexed by this. Followed her for a good while. Never altered course. I almost thought to leave it as it must be some random boat.

I decided to fire a single shot from the deck gun high above the water line. Second I did polish flag flies and she takes off at full speed.

Not sure if that was a bug or the A.I. but was clever. on top of that she was deep in keils water. Clever bastard.

funken · 01-23-13, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

v0.0.39 released. See post #1

Great!

Thanks a lot!

gap · 01-26-13, 06:50 PM

After further testing with these missions, this in my updated report on the new features introduced with IRAI v 0.0.39:

- I can confirm that plane strategies are much more varied now: not only the change their altitude more often, they also engage enemies from more varied angles, and the interval between two consecutive attack dives may vary greatly.

- I have never seen damaged aircraft clearing off the area. They keep attacking even though their engine is on flame. On the other hand, I have noiced that sometimes they give up their attack for no apparent reason, or (rarely) they don't attack at all.

- I have never been kamikazed. During my tests it seemed to me that damaged planes tended to get closer while attacking, as if the wanted to crash against us, but they raised their nose at the last minute.

- since I changed v 0.0.37 for 0.0.39, attacking planes have never dropped bombs against me. In the same test mission, this was a common occurrence using previous IRAI version...

vlad29 · 01-27-13, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap

After further testing with these missions, this in my updated report on the new features introduced with IRAI v 0.0.39:

- I can confirm that plane strategies are much more varied now: not only the change their altitude more often, they also engage enemies from more varied angles, and the interval between two consecutive attack dives may vary greatly.

- Can only agree thats a good issue

- I have never seen damaged aircraft clearing off the area. They keep attacking even though their engine is on flame. - Unfortunately it is 0%realistic
On the other hand, I have noiced that sometimes they give up their attack for no apparent reason, or (rarely) they don't attack at all. - That is close to reality if to keep in mind limited ammo or absence of powerfull armament on board for the described cases

- I have never been kamikazed. - No place for outstanding heroism in SH5 that means
During my tests it seemed to me that damaged planes tended to get closer while attacking, as if the wanted to crash against us, but they raised their nose at the last minute - Not realistic I think. Damaged planes should get out from 'fire' area ASAP and take course to the closest base or shore with climbing as high as they cood to keep good reserve of altitude untill engine stop (and also for pilots safe 'ejection').

- since I changed v 0.0.37 for 0.0.39, attacking planes have never dropped bombs against me. - Not good, because bombs were the main anti-sub weapon
In the same test mission, this was a common occurrence using previous IRAI version...

Nice report Gap

. Have added some comments in yellow if You don't mind

Besides, as we've agreed few months ago, I 'scanned' some materials re. air attacks on subs during WWII (mostly - by soviet WWII naval aviation). The results are the following:
1. I haven't find any approovement that U-boats were sunk directly due to air-gun and machine gun hits. There were some situations when after few (up to 6) hits of 37-mm shells from plane guns the U-boat took damages that didn't allow her to submerge. After that in most cases the 'final dot' have been put with an air-bomb (f.e. from the other plane redirrected to that grid).
2. The U-boat was not the target easy for gun-fire aiming during air attack because of its narrow and low hull shape (machine-gun fire with traces was used mostly for gun-aiming) . Thats why the number of heavy shell hits was few (in case when one or two planes were carrying attack on her) and not enough for 'complete' damage.
3. Light (non-gun) fighters during air raides on naval targets were used mostly for 'covering' bombers and heavy fighters while the last were attacking ships and boats.
So in SH5 the planes AI behaviour should in my oppinion be the following:
- The non-gun light fighters without bombs: when detecting the U-boat are just passing it, but later the appearence of heavy bomb-or gun-armed planes should be expected;
- Non-gun figters with bombs: bomb attack on the U-boat and then leaving the place;
- Heavy fighters and bombers: attacking U-boat with bombs, gun and machine-gun fire.
The damage level from those categories of planes should differ also of course.
Thats the theory, and how to implement it in practice - who knows

gap · 01-27-13, 05:24 PM

Hi Vlad,

I see you are much more more documented than me on the matter of air attack strategies. Your remarks seem entirey plausible to me; nonetheless, we should tick in mind that:

- as often noted by TDW himself, planes AI is very limited, and not everything can be done;

- many of the features we are discussing were introduced recently, and probably not tested before their release. Hopefully there is still space for some finetuning;

- last but not least, tough being the result of many tests, my remarks are based on one single mission where the attacker is an Hurricane. It would be better if, while we are waiting for TDW to come back, someone else tested the new IRAI version in campaign, and posted here his reports

Fifi · 01-28-13, 03:11 AM

I'm running latest IRAI among my mods list, and i just had a nice example of boats reaction and damages...

2 big troops transport following each other at 15 knots far south of Feroe islands. Aimed the first, and 3 torps later began to sink. Last torp was for the second one, nicely hitted too...
But the second one just slowed down and took some fire upstairs, tried to avoid me, and headed an other direction accelarating again.
Impossible to use the deck gun cause of waves, and as soon as i surfaced, machine guns illuminating sky!
So decided to follow him underwater, but his speed was still too fast.
Waited some time, and surfaced again to gain some speed.
I had to follow him for hours in the night before he finally sinked!
Fire was also gaining all the boat with time, and he lost gradually knots untill he stops and sunk

johan_d · 01-29-13, 04:58 AM

On the planes in SH5..

They always annoyed me.

Fighter planes were not developped for submarine hunting. So trying to find them with one relies on pilot sight, and the sea is a huge place, so spotting would be hard. (ever really zoomed out on your sub ?
I cant see it on the same distance a plane can.. so no compettion in this :-( )

Furthermore, I think IRAI (dont know if this already does it) should let the plane radio in position, keep distance, and follow the uboat untill lost.

Destroyers and such should steam up to the uboat location. Damaged planes.. I assume when you fly an old WW2 bird, who are very vulnerable to damage, over such large space of water, the immediate action would be disengage, may day may day, and head for the nearest land.

Not kamikaze, the Japs did that later in the war, not the RAF. Nobody would be over the northsea in a gasguzzling plane shooting at a target in the middle of nowhere what shoots back at you with flak.
Unless of course there a more planes around to help. (but not in the beginning with those bi-planes) Bombers, some were adjusted for this task, but most of then are very slow.
After they dropped their bombs I assume they keep following their target untill help comes in, untill out of fuel. Later in the war tactics changed.

Does IRAI take this in account ?

I do not use IRAI at the moment, gave me game crashes. Is the latest version more stable ?

Navuhodonosor · 01-29-13, 10:00 AM

Hy, I am using latest version of IRAI and I was lurking tanker escorted by one destroyer. Destroyer passed first, then tanker and then I waited for them to go four miles and surfaced the sub. I was using my deck gun to hit the tanker ( run out of torpedoes ) and destroyer never turned back to defend the tanker.
Is that normal to happen sometimes

01-29-13, 10:00 AM	#1965
Navuhodonosor Engineer Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Belgrade Posts: 215 Downloads: 54 Uploads: 0	Hy, I am using latest version of IRAI and I was lurking tanker escorted by one destroyer. Destroyer passed first, then tanker and then I waited for them to go four miles and surfaced the sub. I was using my deck gun to hit the tanker ( run out of torpedoes ) and destroyer never turned back to defend the tanker. Is that normal to happen sometimes __________________

01-21-13, 05:56 PM	#1955
gap Navy Seal Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: CJ8937 Posts: 8,215 Downloads: 793 Uploads: 10	planes don't attack with v0.0.39 experience with this mission used by me and Volodya for many tests on flak guns settings. With previous version of IRAI the plane attacks as supposed

01-21-13, 06:27 PM	#1956
gap Navy Seal Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: CJ8937 Posts: 8,215 Downloads: 793 Uploads: 10	quick update: if attacked, the plane responds to fire and becomes aggressive. If not attacked, it just flies over the sub, ignoring it. Moreover, please have a look to this screenie: Left wing on fire, yet the Hurricane kept attacking for several dives

01-21-13, 06:59 PM	#1957
gap Navy Seal Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: CJ8937 Posts: 8,215 Downloads: 793 Uploads: 10	second update: this time the Hurrican took the offensive before being fired on. After all it seems I rushed to much with my first report Again, it keept attacking after getting damaged, though this time it was a lesser serious damage. P.S: could be unrelated but during the last two tests the game ctd'ed while I was observing the scene with the binocular. Never happened before with the same mission, and I played it tens of times I will keep you informed on any further test I will carry on. P.S: it might be just my impression, but it seems that after enabling this last version of IRAI airplane's strategy became more varied. Now it changes elevation much more than before, and it approaches the U-boat from more varied angles

01-21-13, 09:57 PM	#1958
Gaugeforever Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I'm not sure if I experienced my first IRAI event today. Was chasing ship in a really nasty storm. I get about 500m off her (yea it was that dark and hard to see). She wasn't flying a flag. I was perplexed by this. Followed her for a good while. Never altered course. I almost thought to leave it as it must be some random boat. I decided to fire a single shot from the deck gun high above the water line. Second I did polish flag flies and she takes off at full speed. Not sure if that was a bug or the A.I. but was clever. on top of that she was deep in keils water. Clever bastard.

01-26-13, 06:50 PM	#1960
gap Navy Seal Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: CJ8937 Posts: 8,215 Downloads: 793 Uploads: 10	After further testing with these missions, this in my updated report on the new features introduced with IRAI v 0.0.39: - I can confirm that plane strategies are much more varied now: not only the change their altitude more often, they also engage enemies from more varied angles, and the interval between two consecutive attack dives may vary greatly. - I have never seen damaged aircraft clearing off the area. They keep attacking even though their engine is on flame. On the other hand, I have noiced that sometimes they give up their attack for no apparent reason, or (rarely) they don't attack at all. - I have never been kamikazed. During my tests it seemed to me that damaged planes tended to get closer while attacking, as if the wanted to crash against us, but they raised their nose at the last minute. - since I changed v 0.0.37 for 0.0.39, attacking planes have never dropped bombs against me. In the same test mission, this was a common occurrence using previous IRAI version...

01-27-13, 05:24 PM	#1962
gap Navy Seal Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: CJ8937 Posts: 8,215 Downloads: 793 Uploads: 10	Hi Vlad, I see you are much more more documented than me on the matter of air attack strategies. Your remarks seem entirey plausible to me; nonetheless, we should tick in mind that: - as often noted by TDW himself, planes AI is very limited, and not everything can be done; - many of the features we are discussing were introduced recently, and probably not tested before their release. Hopefully there is still space for some finetuning; - last but not least, tough being the result of many tests, my remarks are based on one single mission where the attacker is an Hurricane. It would be better if, while we are waiting for TDW to come back, someone else tested the new IRAI version in campaign, and posted here his reports

01-28-13, 03:11 AM	#1963
Fifi Navy Seal Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: France Posts: 6,094 Downloads: 466 Uploads: 0	I'm running latest IRAI among my mods list, and i just had a nice example of boats reaction and damages... 2 big troops transport following each other at 15 knots far south of Feroe islands. Aimed the first, and 3 torps later began to sink. Last torp was for the second one, nicely hitted too... But the second one just slowed down and took some fire upstairs, tried to avoid me, and headed an other direction accelarating again. Impossible to use the deck gun cause of waves, and as soon as i surfaced, machine guns illuminating sky! So decided to follow him underwater, but his speed was still too fast. Waited some time, and surfaced again to gain some speed. I had to follow him for hours in the night before he finally sinked! Fire was also gaining all the boat with time, and he lost gradually knots untill he stops and sunk

01-29-13, 04:58 AM	#1964
johan_d Samurai Navy Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 556 Downloads: 113 Uploads: 1	On the planes in SH5.. They always annoyed me. Fighter planes were not developped for submarine hunting. So trying to find them with one relies on pilot sight, and the sea is a huge place, so spotting would be hard. (ever really zoomed out on your sub ? I cant see it on the same distance a plane can.. so no compettion in this :-( ) Furthermore, I think IRAI (dont know if this already does it) should let the plane radio in position, keep distance, and follow the uboat untill lost. Destroyers and such should steam up to the uboat location. Damaged planes.. I assume when you fly an old WW2 bird, who are very vulnerable to damage, over such large space of water, the immediate action would be disengage, may day may day, and head for the nearest land. Not kamikaze, the Japs did that later in the war, not the RAF. Nobody would be over the northsea in a gasguzzling plane shooting at a target in the middle of nowhere what shoots back at you with flak. Unless of course there a more planes around to help. (but not in the beginning with those bi-planes) Bombers, some were adjusted for this task, but most of then are very slow. After they dropped their bombs I assume they keep following their target untill help comes in, untill out of fuel. Later in the war tactics changed. Does IRAI take this in account ? I do not use IRAI at the moment, gave me game crashes. Is the latest version more stable ?