UBER-Realism Thread

[moscowexile]

As regards über-reality, wasn't there a Kaleun a few months back who reported that he had set off on a mission without time compression, that he had no intention of using time compression, and that he intended to let his PC run constantly, apart from when he was at work or sleeping, in order to simulate full immersion as near as possible? If so, I wonder where he is now?

In his alter ego, I mean.

[siber]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/...oct/index.html
Chapter 4, Section 6, Page 51, Part 4614.
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/....html#section6

Interesting that the US navy at the time recommends a rate of 100% redundancy. If a ship requires 1 torp to sink it, fire 2!

Having said that, I think I remember reading somewhere that US torpedoes were even less reliable than German ones. (Do I remember correctly?) It's also interesting that it states: "...in an area where targets are known to be numerous Commanding Officers must use their torpedoes with discretion and care in order to inflict the utmost damage to the enemy"

I guess this means 'It's up to you!'

Also, I was reading another link to u-boat.net yesterday about the electric torpedoes. Apparently if run on fast without having their batteries warmed up beforehand, they only had 1/3 of the range (about 1.5km!). Therefore, for uber-realism, I'll not be using electrics for long shots anymore!

[onelifecrisis]

Originally Posted by siber

Also, I was reading another link to u-boat.net yesterday about the electric torpedoes. Apparently if run on fast without having their batteries warmed up beforehand, they only had 1/3 of the range (about 1.5km!). Therefore, for uber-realism, I'll not be using electrics for long shots anymore!

Electrics don't have a "fast" setting in SH3, unless I'm mistaken, and if they did I'm sure it would result in reduced range anyway, just like it does with the steam torps. There's nothing unrealistic about a (slow) electric torp travelling 4km, AFAIK. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong!

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by siber

Interesting that the US navy at the time recommends a rate of 100% redundancy. If a ship requires 1 torp to sink it, fire 2!

I never looked at it in quite that light! You're right, they were covering their tails as best they could.:rotfl:

Having said that, I think I remember reading somewhere that US torpedoes were even less reliable than German ones.

That's a much-discussed topic. The German actually forbade the use of magnetic exploders from 1940 until the problem was fixed in 1943; so while it could be argued both ways, it seems to me that they were about equal with their failures and in the fixing of them.

I guess this means 'It's up to you!'

That reminds me of the (historically accurate) scene in Tora! Tora! Tora!, when Admiral Kimmel tells Bull Halsey to take his carriers out scouting. Halsey asks Kimmel what his orders are if he should meet Japanese ships in the area of Hawaii. Kimmel tells him "Use your discretion." Halsey's reply: "That's the best damned order I've ever been given!"

[mengle]

i don't know, when i installed RB SH4 effects for gwx 2.1 fixed by Asanovic7, i must tell you 1 torpedo is not enough anymore , what i also like is that ships take a long time before the going under

[onelifecrisis]

OK, since this thread started I've been trying to take note of the things I do to increase "realism". These have become so automatic to me that I couldn't think of them off the top of my head. Anyway, I reckon I've got most of them now, so to anyone who is interested I've listed them. Most of these, I read about here at subsim.

• I set "Maximum TC" to 256. As has already been noted, high TC all but removes the possibility of air attacks.
• I set "When Hunting TC" to 256. If you have this set lower than your Maximum TC it can be a give away. For example, if it were set at 32 (the default) then when a ship is spotted I will know whether or not it is an enemy ship, even from 16km, just by trying to go high on the TC while shadowing it. Setting this TC the same as the max TC forces me to check the flag.
• I never stop submerged. Maintaining a constant depth in a U-boat that wasn't moving was barely possible, and trying it made a lot of noise IRL. SH3 doesn't model this noise, so I always keep my U-boat moving at least a little bit. Sitting perfectly still at PD (or any depth) is effectively cheating in SH3.
• I never ping for depth when enemies are around. IRL, pinging the sea floor while escorts are around would have alerted all nearby escorts to your presence, but SH3 doesn't model this. You can ping and they don't hear it. Edited 7th July 2008: I was wrong about this, SH3 does model it, and pinging for depth can result in detection! I therefore don't allow myself to ping for depth when enemy ships are around, I just use the depth thing on the navmap. Sometimes, in waters 100-200m depth (I never go into very shallow waters) I have hit the bottom while trying to put a few extra meters between me and the DD's that are hunting me. I really like this touch! The "Can I, can't I?" question of whether to try for those extra few meters, with the sound of DD's going Ping! above you, can be pretty cool.
• I always let the crew fire the guns. The reasons for this are obvious I think.
• I always follow my orders. If BdU tell me to go to grid AM11, it doesn't seem realistic to me that I ignore them and go to DH53.
• I play DiD (Dead is Dead). This stops me from getting silly ideas like fighting escorts or raiding ports. If you try this, I strongly recommend setting "When being hunted TC" to 1 because the seconds/minutes gained by having TC automatically dropped to 1 when you're attacked can make all the difference. The downside is that DC attacks have to be played out in realtime if the escorts manage to detect me, but even that cloud has a silver lining: it's a little extra incentive to try to make sure I don't get detected at all.

[siber]

Vey interesting OLC! I think I'll be imitating your settings. Obviously you'll use your GUI and Environment mods... Do you use persicope stabilisation with these mods or not? Catfish feels that, combined with your mods, the periscope view is more realistic stabilised.

[onelifecrisis]

Originally Posted by siber

Do you use persicope stabilisation with these mods or not? Catfish feels that, combined with your mods, the periscope view is more realistic stabilised.

Yes but for different reasons to Catfish.
The germans had a split prism stadimiter in the attack scope. They lined up two images, and doing that "automatically" rotated the "Range/AOB Finder" wheels. The point is that while both images would moved around due to scope roll, they would not move relative to each other, so lining them up was relatively straight forward.
I made it so that Periscope Stabilisation could be turned on without a realism hit because

• we don't have the split-image periscope in SH3
• our on-screen periscope view is already much worse (low-resolution) than a real one
• stabilising a scope using two arrow keys is surely much more difficult than doing it with your hands on a real scope

But, some high-realism players here have it turned on, and - given my unrealistically high tonnage scores - maybe they're right to do so and I should change my settings.


BTW, Pablo, if you're reading... I've not yet done much testing of EDE but I did find time to do some controlled tests, and so far you seem absolutely right about EDE not doing additional damage. I'll therefore remove the comments about EDE from my earlier posts. If I ever do find any evidence of extra damage being done by EDE, I'll send you a PM.

[JScones]

Originally Posted by onelifecrisis

• I set "Maximum TC" to 256. As has already been noted, high TC all but removes the possibility of air attacks.
• I set "When Hunting TC" to 256. If you have this set lower than your Maximum TC it can be a give away. For example, if it were set at 32 (the default) then when a ship is spotted I will know whether or not it is an enemy ship, even from 16km, just by trying to go high on the TC while shadowing it. Setting this TC the same as the max TC forces me to check the flag.

Even then it's hard to avoid that tell-tale slowing down that SH3 exhibits whenever there is a ship or convoy near by.

TBH though, apart from the two TC settings listed above (I set both to 4096 because sometimes I just need to hurry things up), my approach is exactly the same as yours.

[siber]

Generally, with respect to the simulation slowing when a ship is nearby, I won't deviate from plotted course for single ship reports. I'll deviate only for radio reports of convoys nearby. Otherwise, I'll only approach nearby ships if they've been spotted by the watch crew...

[Ivan Putski]

I also play DiD, and much the same as OLC does, I like to use SHIII Commanders randon crush depth, gives a little extra to worry about. No two boats, even of the same type were built equal, or even by the same shipyards. I like that feature, even more if you`ve acquired damage, leave a nice big question mark. I`ve had some pretty long careers 39- late 43, 39- late 44, but have yet to survive the war. Puts

[onelifecrisis]

Originally Posted by JScones

Even then it's hard to avoid that tell-tale slowing down that SH3 exhibits whenever there is a ship or convoy near by.

Very true. I tried 128x and even then I still get a noticable pause when a convoy is loaded.

When I get that tell-tale momentary judder from a convoyI wasn't expecting, I just ignore it and proceed along whatever course I've plotted. If I blunder into the convoy, fine. If I miss it, tough luck. It's still annoying, though.

Ignorance would be bliss, eh?

I play the same as OLC except I never go above 128 when in patrol zone on surface and 256 when submerged or en route to patrol zone.

Always do a quick observation scope check for planes before surfacing.

Always fire a min of 2 fish at targets greater than 4500 TNS

Never engage escorts but hope to one day engage a capital ship.

Always use crew for deck gun and flak guns.

Always stop the boat when loading external spare fish and never in winds greater than 7mps

Never abort reloading of an external fish once started, so if a plane comes then i'll just have to fight it out :-(

Gun reload time set to 15 secs

Random crush depths

Sabotage and Malfuntions enabled

NVDrifters excellent Longer Repair times...and absolute must.

Great topic by the way, someone should put together an SH3 Commanders Handbook with all these realism tips included

[siber]

I was going to ask about deck gun reload times... I know you can set a minimum time with SH3Commander, but what would a realistic reload time be? I've yet to find a definitive answer (although, tbh, I haven't really tried to search very hard ).

I've a mate who used to be in the Royal Artillery, and he said that with a crew of three, his 105mm gun took about 4-6 seconds to reload... but said gun would be stationary, lashed down and stable... Also, ammo would be to hand.

I understand u-boats had to have ammo passed up from below, round by round. Add this to a pitching wet deck and the additional time it takes to lay the gun each shot because of the movement, and this time's got to be increased somewhat.

What settings do you all use? :hmm:

[aj906]

Originally Posted by onelifecrisis

• I set "Maximum TC" to 256. As has already been noted, high TC all but removes the possibility of air attacks.
• I set "When Hunting TC" to 256. If you have this set lower than your Maximum TC it can be a give away. For example, if it were set at 32 (the default) then when a ship is spotted I will know whether or not it is an enemy ship, even from 16km, just by trying to go high on the TC while shadowing it. Setting this TC the same as the max TC forces me to check the flag.
• I never stop submerged. Maintaining a constant depth in a U-boat that wasn't moving was barely possible, and trying it made a lot of noise IRL. SH3 doesn't model this noise, so I always keep my U-boat moving at least a little bit. Sitting perfectly still at PD (or any depth) is effectively cheating in SH3.
• I never ping for depth when enemies are around. IRL, pinging the sea floor while escorts are around would have alerted all nearby escorts to your presence, but SH3 doesn't model this. You can ping and they don't hear it. I therefore don't allow myself to ping for depth when enemy ships are around, I just use the depth thing on the navmap. Sometimes, in waters 100-200m depth (I never go into very shallow waters) I have hit the bottom while trying to put a few extra meters between me and the DD's that are hunting me. I really like this touch! The "Can I, can't I?" question of whether to try for those extra few meters, with the sound of DD's going Ping! above you, can be pretty cool.
• I always let the crew fire the guns. The reasons for this are obvious I think.
• I always follow my orders. If BdU tell me to go to grid AM11, it doesn't seem realistic to me that I ignore them and go to DH53.
• I play DiD (Dead is Dead). This stops me from getting silly ideas like fighting escorts or raiding ports. If you try this, I strongly recommend setting "When being hunted TC" to 1 because the seconds/minutes gained by having TC automatically dropped to 1 when you're attacked can make all the difference. The downside is that DC attacks have to be played out in realtime if the escorts manage to detect me, but even that cloud has a silver lining: it's a little extra incentive to try to make sure I don't get detected at all.

I play with weapon officer assistance on simply because in RL, there would have been a helping hand to juggle the necessary input data. I also use external view but only because I love the eye-candy of GWX and the great desktops that can be produced from it. Other than that, it's "realistic"

I am surprised to learn that the depth ping has no effect as to whether or not you are "heard". As a matter of course, when I know there is anything within sonar range I just don't use it and sink by degrees. I had just assumed pinging the depth was tantamount to suicide I also try not to use the periscope to judge depth which I believe is a bit unrelaistic. Even at night at 180metres you can still clearly make out the rivets on the bow of your boat... (or at least, I can..)

I have to say, I'm more of a winged-wonder than a silent stalker, but the diversion of SH3+GWX2.0 has opened a whole new world to me!