History Channel "the Atlantic Submarine War"

[mayandlex]

This programme was shown on the History Channel in N.Z. last night and although showing some interesting footage and interviews there were some thought provoking parts. "The Atlantic U Boat war" described the u boats as "cowardly and treasonous" with their crews "murdering innocent civilians" by their "cowardly" acts of sneaking around unseen. (nobody else had submarines ??)
Shipwrecked sailors from torpedoed boats were shown as being in constant and real fear of being murdered by surfaced u boats with their flack guns
The usual stories implying that Germany declared war on Britain and that Germany alone was responsible for the unrestricted submarine warfare were trotted out.
All these comments on a programme made up in recent years was I thought odd.
Think what you will of the events of this time but surely contemporary reports should now stick more to the facts and discard the 1940's British Newsreel type of reporting.

I now feel like a real meanie "sneaking around in my submarine" I will stock up on Moro Bars to hand out to survivors. or give them vouchers to McDonalds.

Cheers, just offered this for food for thought.

[Dowly]

"...being in constant and real fear of being murdered by surfaced u boats with their flack guns."

:rotfl:I´ve only read about one occasion on which the uboat commander killed the survivors with machinegun. On the same article it was said that uboats, when engaging targets with deck gun, used sometimes flak guns also to shoot at the command bridge and other 'vital' parts of the ship. I just hate those pro-allies point of view documentaries.

[STEED]

Who ever wrote the commentary to the programme, did they back up there remarks with proof?

[stabiz]

These documentaries are all the same. Same with Discovery. (We know the Nazis were bad, but german soldiers were not any worse than other soldiers, give us a break)

Yeah, and all - ALL - American books on WW2 present the British as somewhat stupid. It kinda gets old after a while.

[Kruger]

Yup. Many people judge the germans in ww2 like they were all SS guarding the extermination camps. In fact, the Kriegsmarine was the least political weapon of Hitler's.


What about the Laconia incident ? Nobody (and especially the americans) won't talk about that. I'm sure that the image of Hartenstein's U-156 loaded with Laconia survivors is not something to make people like the ones that do such documentaries...very comfortable...or is it ?

http://uboat.net/ops/laconia.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laconia_incident


These articles are more than explanatory.


It's very interesting...Hartenstein even transmitted uncoded his position to the allies, and requested back-up. What was the american response when a LIberator spotted the four submarines (three german and one italian) with their decks packed with people...and towing life rafts ?

"
The next morning, September 16, at 11:25am, the four submarines, with Red Cross flags draped across their gun decks, were spotted by an American B-24 Liberator bomber from Ascension Island. Hartenstein signalled to the pilot requesting assistance. Lieutenant James D. Harden of the U.S. Army Air Force turned away and notified his base of the situation. The senior officer on duty that day, Captain Robert C. Richardson III, replied with the order "Sink sub."

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Dowly

"...being in constant and real fear of being murdered by surfaced u boats with their flack guns."

:rotfl:I´ve only read about one occasion on which the uboat commander killed the survivors with machinegun. On the same article it was said that uboats, when engaging targets with deck gun, used sometimes flak guns also to shoot at the command bridge and other 'vital' parts of the ship. I just hate those pro-allies point of view documentaries.

Think you meant this boat:
http://www.uboat.net/boats/u852.htm

It's the only one.

[Puster Bill]

While there was only one documented instance of suvivors being killed in lifeboats, that isn't the same as sailors THINKING that they will be gunned down. I'm pretty sure that was a common fear amongst the merchant marine, mainly due to Allied propaganda.

[NeonSamurai]

Ya thats the problem with revisionist history, one tends to make the enemy look as horrible and evil as possible, while brushing all the horrible and evil stuff the side that won did under the rug.

[stabiz]

Winners write history.

[Kruger]

Jah, sure, propaganda was fierce on both sides. But sailors knew very well that on the other side were...sailors like them. With mothers...fathers...daughters...wifes...girlfirend s...sisters and so on, with fears and wishes, with feelings. Naval warfare is an impersonal one...the human tragedies usually remain unknown. Ships fight each other, not men... In the torpedoroom, you don't hear the horror screams of those trapped between the decks, who were infortunate enough not to be killed by the first torpedo. On the bridge of a beautiful destroyer...who cuts the waves at full speed...you also don't see the diformed faces in terror of those drowned and crushed by your depth charges.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Think you meant this boat:
http://www.uboat.net/boats/u852.htm

It's the only one.

Yup, that´s the one. Thanks mate!

[Subnuts]

Submarine warfare is really, really, mean?

I'm shocked.

[stabiz]

I dont see any US-bashing in this thread, so stop with the paranoia. The examples are there to show the opposite side of something that is clearly biased.

[hyperion2206]

Originally Posted by mayandlex

This programme was shown on the History Channel in N.Z. last night and although showing some interesting footage and interviews there were some thought provoking parts. "The Atlantic U Boat war" described the u boats as "cowardly and treasonous" with their crews "murdering innocent civilians" by their "cowardly" acts of sneaking around unseen. (nobody else had submarines ??)
Shipwrecked sailors from torpedoed boats were shown as being in constant and real fear of being murdered by surfaced u boats with their flack guns
The usual stories implying that Germany declared war on Britain and that Germany alone was responsible for the unrestricted submarine warfare were trotted out.
All these comments on a programme made up in recent years was I thought odd.
Think what you will of the events of this time but surely contemporary reports should now stick more to the facts and discard the 1940's British Newsreel type of reporting.

I now feel like a real meanie "sneaking around in my submarine" I will stock up on Moro Bars to hand out to survivors. or give them vouchers to McDonalds.

Cheers, just offered this for food for thought.

I think it was common to say that Germany used U-Boats, slaughtering thousands while the Allies had their heroic submarines to defeat the pure evil. Isn't propaganda just great?:p

[jumpy]

Originally Posted by hyperion2206

I think it was common to say that Germany used U-Boats, slaughtering thousands while the Allies had their heroic submarines to defeat the pure evil. Isn't propaganda just great?:p

Yup, I forget exactly who it was who said it, but it was something along the lines of 'the germans have the Uboat (emphasis being upon that device as a cowardly and underhanded means of making war upon one's enemies) whislt we british have the Submarine which is an altogether more honest and noble device of conflict'. Or words to that effect, but ofcourse the bosche are evil and crawling while we are good and honestly straight up :hmm: