[WIP] Dud Torpedoes Hardcore - testers needed

[Jungman]

Some test data with latest file. Interesting stuff. Agreement with Camaero results.

Janurary, 1 1943 Mogami. set for about 20 feet. AOB 70 to 147 Mark 14 sea is calm. 1300 yd auto target.

2 - magnetic slow Miss deep
2 - magnetic slow Hit
2 - magnetic fast Premature explosion
1 - contact fast Dud bounce off hull
1 - contact fast Miss deep
1 - contact fast Hit
1 - magnetic fast Premature explosion
1 - magnetic fast Hit

4 hit out of 11 shot. 64% loss ratio. Ran a bunch more impromptu.

It would seem that if you set for Magnetic, you will suffer more premature detonations than contact only. Worst weather, more premature explosions. However, you do not seem to suffer from the AOB firing pin not working malfunction. So if it gets to the ship, it will blow no matter what angle.

Running Contact setting it would seem you do not suffer from nearly as much premature detonation as the magnetic setting, however you will get AOB duds bouncing off the hull due to the firing pin malfunction. A nice gameplay trade off.

I notice I definetly have deep running torpedoes, even though the *.sim file says they should not occur until after March 31, 1943. :hmm:

From my tests I have not had one single gyro error!

I also had no gyro problems out about 60 fired. Though had one circle runner. I used Auto Target maybe it removes all Gyro errors. Did Egan use Manual target?

[Egan]

Originally Posted by Jungman

4 Did Egan use Manual target?

Yes. It was really strange. In two campaign patrols I shot at least ten with gyro problems. Not one of them prematured , ran deep anything else - they just ran away to port.

Oddly, I tried it with a couple of set up missions and they worked exactly like they ought to - Not one gyro but almost everything else.

I'll give it another go later on. Are people running this is in the campaign as well as single missions?

[CCIP]

I tested in single missions and now I'm running a campaign with a Sugarboat to test the Mk 10's. Unfortunately I mostly sail in the Solomons, one of the only places in stock campaign where traffic is darned sparse

I would be careful with using auto-targeting. From what I recall, for example, in SHIII every auto-targeted torpedo resulted in a 'critical hit'. It may likewise have side effects on torpedo effectiveness in SHIV.

[CCIP]

Anyone got anything to say about Mk.10's? I'm pretty much happy with the Mk. 14 failure rates, but not sure what to say about Mk. 10's - how should these work?

So far on my patrol I had 0 apparent failures out of 7 fired, and sunk 3 small destroyers with them.


Oh, and re: gyro error.

I've been thinking more about this. What if we do away with the 'major veering off course' error, and instead introduce a more frequent but smaller-angle failure (say, 5 degrees instead of 30)? Would keep you guessing even more if it was your fault or not... and it could be used to simulate not only a bad gyro but, say, your TDC officer screwing up the firing solution a little.

Just a thought, anyway.

[Camaero]

Originally Posted by CCIP

Anyone got anything to say about Mk.10's? I'm pretty much happy with the Mk. 14 failure rates, but not sure what to say about Mk. 10's - how should these work?

So far on my patrol I had 0 apparent failures out of 7 fired, and sunk 3 small destroyers with them.


Oh, and re: gyro error.

I've been thinking more about this. What if we do away with the 'major veering off course' error, and instead introduce a more frequent but smaller-angle failure (say, 5 degrees instead of 30)? Would keep you guessing even more if it was your fault or not... and it could be used to simulate not only a bad gyro but, say, your TDC officer screwing up the firing solution a little.

Just a thought, anyway.

My firing officer sucks as it is! (me)

I haven't tried the 10s yet, but they were supposed to be a lot more reliable due to their slower speed.

[Jungman]

Testing with manual targeting. The gyro angle solution needs to be hammered out.

It would seem only the Pistols dates June 1943 is being used for ALL errors end dates. I have deep runners in years there should not be any.

So far, this Mod is a HUGE immersive gain though. Report back with more detail testing use manual targeting to elimnate possible conflict with gyro failure.

I would keep the gyro error Large and Not Often. Since that was more to real life. A good question though, CCIP.

[CCIP]

Anyone else have anything on Mk.10s?

So far I'm seeing a little too much reliability on them; just ran a patrol and got 11 hits and 1 dud (yep, my aim was that good, I was pretty impressed ). I'm thinking the efficiency there needs a little adjustment again...

I think it's the fact that they don't seem to have a premature chance built into them at all. That means compensating with a bit more in the way of duds or depth errors may be in order...

[CCIP]

Oh, and I can't find a post I was looking for again - someone (tater?) suggested that the arming distance for the torpedoes should be 400 yards (it's presently 220 meters).

Can someone confirm this info? Should this be changed or left at 220m?

[CaptainCox]

Been sifting through the inet for almost 1h looking for this. There is all possible info on German torps and very detailed stuff about US torps, but nothing as to regards of the actual firing mechanism safety distance...nada!!!

[CaptainCox]

OK found something

It takes great care to make torpedoes that will explode only when intended. One safety device the Mark 6 exploder relied on was a small propeller on the underside of the warhead that spun as it traveled through the water. After 450 yards, when the torpedo had leveled off at its predetermined depth and on its set course, the spinning propeller would move the detonator into the booster cavity, arming the torpedo.

(450 yards = 411.48 meters)
Sounds like a lot maybe...but.

Source: http://www.americanheritage.com/arti...998_4_56.shtml

[Balu0]

I just made a patrol with mk10's..

I fired 12 on 1 ship .. I srewed up the first 2 solution first with 2 fast spped, than two slow... but the last slavo was right on target.. 4 hit, 2 dud, 1 went too deep and passed.. 1 exploded but at a lucky spot and the modern composite slowly went under..

Had no gyro error .. all torp went on their course.. I followed all with external camera and I think from the first 8 torp I had 2 or 2 deep runner, but not sure..

None exploded early..

I used magnetic setting.

[Galanti]

Originally Posted by CCIP

Anyone else have anything on Mk.10s?

So far I'm seeing a little too much reliability on them; just ran a patrol and got 11 hits and 1 dud (yep, my aim was that good, I was pretty impressed ). I'm thinking the efficiency there needs a little adjustment again...

I think it's the fact that they don't seem to have a premature chance built into them at all. That means compensating with a bit more in the way of duds or depth errors may be in order...

I didn't have much time to test your mod lasat night, and the only contacts I did make were sampans, fishing boats and those shallow-draft gunboats, but I will tell you I have definately had beacoup prematures with the mk. 10s in the past. But as I've noted in some other thread, it seems to vary considerably from patrol to patrol. I wonder if there is an randomness built into the engine that applies an additional fudge factor for every patrol. And I've hacked my Gameplaysettings.cfg so that every level of realism uses the 'Realistic' settings, as I had noticed before that sometimes the difficulty level was reset between patrols, so I always have 'Dud torpedoes' selected.

But prematures definately do exist for Mk. 10s.

[CCIP]

Alright, quick update!

Messed around with Mk 10's a little, though I'm still not sure whether it's enough; and changed all trigger activation distances to the equivalent of 450 yards (411m) (originally 220m).

http://files.filefront.com/Torpedoes.../fileinfo.html

(same link added to 1st post)

[CaptainCox]

Cheers you are working hard core on this man!

[akdavis]

The only known consistent problem of the Mk. 10 torpedo was depth keeping, with the torpedo running on average 4 feet too deep. Other than that, there could be any number of issues related to the age and storage of the torpedos. Some were very old and very poorly maintained. This could lead to a wide range of failures, some far more serious than game allows for. Mk. 10 had a contact exploder only and could not be set to turn on a gyro angle (they had to be fired at a 0 degree off-angle).