[REL] Open Horizons II

[GT182]

7Infanterie19, I was told that lifeboats are in OHII Full, but as I've said before, I've never had them spawn.

Now if we could update OHII from one verision to a new one without restarting our campaigns, that would be fantastic. I know the order of installing mods and then changing them around will neccessitate a restart, I wonder if there's a way around that. That would be on if the greatest fixes of SH5 for everyone.

[Silent Steel]

Originally Posted by Bothersome

Steel, that's an interesting load order... Can you elaborate on why it should be that way?

I'll try to explain why arranged your list that way.

The load order for the three mods;
* FX Update/NewUIs/IRAI/IRAI Ship Inertia is correct and should run properly this way

* The Torpedo_Speed_Abilitie_Fix_for_TDC_SH5_v120 only affects the data\UPCDataGE\UPCCrewData\SpecialAbilities.upc file and could be activated after the NewUIs_TDC_7_1_0_ByTheDarkWraith as well but I just left it where it was in your list

* Any interior mod should be activated after any UI mod and let overwrite yhe UI mod or there is a chance you don't get all the features of the (in this case) SteelViking's Interior Mod

* Open Horizons is a very complex mod affecting lots of features and as such it should be left alone as much as possible, i.e. (generally speaking) the further down a mod list you activate a mod the more likely is the mod not affected by any other mod

* The two OPEN HORIZONS II full/Dyn Env v2.9 mods I prefer to load in this order just because I know they run properly this way

* The 'Remove Electric Torpedo Wakes', 'sobers see thru wake fix' and ' R.E.M. don't mess with 'Dyn Env' or any other of the mods further up in your list and can be activated after OPEN HORIZONS II full/Dyn Env v2.9. That is - as stated by Gap in his info on the 'DynEnv' mod - they don't come with any of the files he states are not compatible with any other mod containing the ClimateZones.cfg, ClimateZones.tga, EnvColors_*.cfg, Weather_*.cfg files

To sum up - to make sure you really get all features included in a certain mod (i.e. unaffected by some other mod activated after it) - the further down in the mod list it should be activated. Newer or updated or not. And, unless a certain mod's author tells what files are modded in his mod there is no other way than simply check it yourself.
As you've for sure already have noticed - the longer the list the more likely some mods will overwrite some mods further up in the list.
It's all about to find out a load order that will let the mods run as properly as possible and eventually don't get CTD's.


BTW; If you, like many of us around here, get annoyed by the lengthy intro when you launch SH5 you should put the RemoveLogoIntroTheDarkWraith as #1 in your list.

[Bothersome]

Thanks much Silent Steel. I'll try to investigate it a little bit more. It seems like all the guages in the boat seem to be working and I guess that's what SteelViking's mod has done. Make those work. I don't know what else it fixed or changed. But I need functionality more than eye candy.

I guess I was thinking that an interior mod might mess up DynEnv 2.9 mod. Since Gap was and is still currently working on improving DynEnv, I would think he has taken into account the overwriting of the SV's mod. I have also been helping test his weather some so I need his stuff to absolutely be correct in its files. DynEnv is a big mod with lots of stuff going on to make things look right.

[Silent Steel]

Actually I'm not running SteelViking's Interior so I can't tell whether all gauges work properly in it.
I use the Naights Submarine Textures (interior) plus silentmichal's new interior mod activated in that order.

To get some gauges work I use the WoGaDi Mod (maybe there are some other and better mods for this? Anyone?)

You're right about an interior mod, that's why I want to activate it before the DynEnv.

IF you want to run tests on Gap's DynEnv weather tweaks I suggest you activate the DynEnv last.
This way no mod will overwrite and interfere with the DynEnv. Just stick to the load order you already have for the Dyn Env.

Anyway, I can tell that both the interior mods I use (see above) work flawlessly when activated before DynEnv. You could just replace SteelViking's Interior with these two if you'd like to check them out.

[Trevally.]

Originally Posted by 7Infanterie19

Edit: Just started Happy Times .. Wilhelmshaven docks are alive with moving cranes and vehicles now. Nothing changed except starting this new mission.

Thanks 7Infanterie19, Glad you got it working.
It is a nice addon mod for OHII - more people should try it

DOWNLOAD

[gap]

Originally Posted by keysersoze

It looks like you already have an excellent start on resupply and special operations. Last night, I started typing a chart that includes the patrols, areas of operation (Kriegsmarine grid squares), and U-boats supplied for all Type XIVs and Type VIIFs. This morning, I realized that this information is all available on uboat.net, so maybe it wouldn't be very useful.

In the meantime, I spent the last several hours compiling a list of all the U-boat "special operations" I could find. You will find date, U-boat(s) involved, and type of operation. I'm sorry for the poor format. I really didn't realize the project would become as large as it did. Here's the link:

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?9oglro2fcwc6boa

PS: I've never used mediafire before, so let me know if the above link doesn't work.

Very well done keysersoze!

I had a close look at the information collected by you, and I got to say that you did an oustanding work with it, as usual. My only remark, is that (similar to what I have done with my reports) maybe we can complete your data with a concise description of each special mission and of the other duties carried out during the same patrol. In this way, it would be easier for Trevally to write the short briefings associated with game missions, and to place each mission in the most appropriate campaign/objectve.

As for the remaining special missions that I had planned to cover, only weather report duties and naval operations are left. I have two questions for Trevally on this subject:

1. is it possible to make the order to "proceed to the x area and report weather every n hours for m days" into a game mission?

2. the wikipedia article on Operation Hartmut is quite well done and gave me many ideas. I know we have already an Operation Weserubung objective, but I have noticed tha U-boat's order of battle for it, envisaged several submarine groups, each with its orders. Would it be possible to make them into as much objectives within the same timeline? If possible, the player should be forced to pick only one of them, even better if only one of them, randomly chosen, would become available.

[keysersoze]

Originally Posted by gap

Very well done keysersoze!
I had a close look at the information collected by you, and I got to say that you did an oustanding work with it, as usual. My only remark, is that (similar to what I have done with my reports) maybe we can complete your data with a concise description of each special mission and of the other duties carried out during the same patrol. In this way, it would be easier for Trevally to write the short briefings associated with game missions, and to place each mission in the most appropriate campaign/objectve.

Good idea—I think I should be able to do this without too much trouble.

For some operations, I only have general information like date, boat(s) involved, and destination. Even so, I think we could probably create a standard template based on the mission type that could then be embellished on a case-by-case basis if additional information is available. For the spy/commando infiltration operations, I have lots of information about the agents involved and U-boat sailing instructions.

I've started making a chart to make it easier to read (I know, the original was a mess). How should I structure it? So far, I have columns for date, mission type, U-boat(s), location/destination, and mission description.

For the last column, I am including the names of agents, codewords, and any other operational details I can find through uboat.net and my other sources. Will this work? Any other suggestions?

[Trevally.]

Originally Posted by gap

I have two questions for Trevally on this subject:

1. is it possible to make the order to "proceed to the x area and report weather every n hours for m days" into a game mission?

Yes - using the patrol area without leaving for x time with radio message explaining the weather reports required

2. the wikipedia article on Operation Hartmut is quite well done and gave me many ideas. I know we have already an Operation Weserubung objective, but I have noticed tha U-boat's order of battle for it, envisaged several submarine groups, each with its orders. Would it be possible to make them into as much objectives within the same timeline? If possible, the player should be forced to pick only one of them, even better if only one of them, randomly chosen, would become available.

These groups could be scripted into the missions where they can overlap the requirments for the campaign objective - OW

[gap]

Originally Posted by Trevally.

Yes - using the patrol area without leaving for x time with radio message explaining the weather reports required

I see. I know that patrolling an area for x time is a valid mission requirement. What about clicking the 'send weather report' button when requested to do so? Could it be also a required condition? I know this is just a small detail, but it would add to the immersion.

Originally Posted by Trevally.

These groups could be scripted into the missions where they can overlap the requirments for the campaign objective - OW

yes, this one could be a valid option, as long as objective's requirements are made as generic as possible. At the correct timing, you could be prompted with a message saying that "you have been assigned to the group x". But what about making the game to randomly pick one group, and only one, from a pool of possible options? Being free to choose the group/mission we prefer, or worse to accept more than one, wouldn't make much sense in this case

[gap]

Originally Posted by keysersoze

Good idea—I think I should be able to do this without too much trouble.

For some operations, I only have general information like date, boat(s) involved, and destination. Even so, I think we could probably create a standard template based on the mission type that could then be embellished on a case-by-case basis if additional information is available. For the spy/commando infiltration operations, I have lots of information about the agents involved and U-boat sailing instructions.

I've started making a chart to make it easier to read (I know, the original was a mess). How should I structure it? So far, I have columns for date, mission type, U-boat(s), location/destination, and mission description.

For the last column, I am including the names of agents, codewords, and any other operational details I can find through uboat.net and my other sources. Will this work? Any other suggestions?

yes

I don't think we need to add much information. Just some basic details:

• the code name of the operation, when given/available;
• a bit of background, if possible;
• waypoints/area of the operation: when not stated, they can be roughly appraised from uboat.net's daily position logs;
• other duties eventually carried out, i.e. tonnage duties or other: again, they can be approximately deduced from the followed route, or from descriptive patrol logs available from many sources (I often used the aforementioned u-boat.net, and u-historia.com);
• at which moment of the patrol the special mission was carried out (i.e: before or after the normal tonnage duties);
• if possible, at which moment the order for the special mission was given (i.e. at base, or during mid patrol);
• other notable events that could be scripted into the mission, especially enemy attacks. As you know, from mid-war Allies managed to decipher the enigma code, and their presence in the theatre of U-boat operations wasn't exactly fortuitous

@Trevally, what do you think?

would this information prove useful for you? I there any important information that I have omitted?

guys, with the needed time, we will plot such an historically informed campaign that GWX's one will pale in comparison

[keysersoze]

Originally Posted by gap

yes
I don't think we need to add much information. Just some basic details:

• the code name of the operation, when given/available;
• a bit of background, if possible;
• waypoints/area of the operation: when not stated, they can be roughly appraised from uboat.net's daily position logs;
• other duties eventually carried out, i.e. tonnage duties or other: again, they can be approximately deduced from the followed route, or from descriptive patrol logs available from many sources (I often used the aforementioned u-boat.net, and u-historia.com);
• at which moment of the patrol the special mission was carried out (i.e: before or after the normal tonnage duties);
• if possible, at which moment the order for the special mission was given (i.e. at base, or during mid patrol);
• other notable events that could be scripted into the mission, especially enemy attacks. As you know, from mid-war Allies managed to decipher the enigma code, and their presence in the theatre of U-boat operations wasn't exactly fortuitous

@Trevally, what do you think?

would this information prove useful for you? I there any important information that I have omitted?

Here is what I have so far:

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?iucv3cd6r735f84

Is this format okay? These are mainly missions dealing with transporting weather teams and setting up weather stations in the Arctic. When I get to the infiltration missions, I will be able to provide more background detail. The lat/long coordinates are only approximations based on a comparison of uboat.net patrol logs and mission information from other sources. They should not be considered the precise landing point for these weather teams, although some seem to be pretty close.

I also have a bunch of side projects that might benefit OHII. The first one is a collection of all the US Eighth Air Force bombing raids against U-boat ports. I'm not sure if it is possible to add this to the campaign layer (or maybe it already is?), but I think it would add tremendously to the immersion to be leaving La Rochelle just as a massive bombing raid shows up. Sadly, I don't have data for British raids yet. If anyone knows where I could find it, please let me know. Link:

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?w7uus10dz1uksd0

I went ahead and finished the chart of milk cow resupply operations. The first link also includes notes on the mechanics of resupplying at sea. I'm not sure if they would be helpful, but I included them just in case. The second link is just the milk cow chart in excel format, in case you just want the data.

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?q1u1hrgdih2hm1t

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?99io0g388harkyg

Originally Posted by gap

guys, with the needed time, we will plot such an historically informed campaign that GWX's one will pale in comparison

I love the ambition!

Although SH3 GWX is a more polished game than SH5 right now, SH5 has so much more potential with special missions and mid-patrol orders. If it was possible to have an SH3-style grid square assignment be the default patrol order (instead of an open-ended campaign like "patrol the Western Approaches), combined with the dynamic special missions of OHII, I think we would have a perfect campaign.

[Trevally.]

Originally Posted by gap

I see. I know that patrolling an area for x time is a valid mission requirement. What about clicking the 'send weather report' button when requested to do so? Could it be also a required condition? I know this is just a small detail, but it would add to the immersion.

I will not be able to use the send weather report button for any trigger within the missions. Only using radio messages to inform player to send the message, but the campaign will not know if the message was sent or not.

The campaign can add random chance factors to a patrol area wher planes or ships could be spawned and enter the area - this could be due to overuse of radio transmissions.

yes, this one could be a valid option, as long as objective's requirements are made as generic as possible. At the correct timing, you could be prompted with a message saying that "you have been assigned to the group x". But what about making the game to randomly pick one group, and only one, from a pool of possible options? Being free to choose the group/mission we prefer, or worse to accept more than one, wouldn't make much sense in this case

Random missions can be used by the request mission button. This is the only way to add a mission script to the campaign other than adding it as a layer.
So if scripted missions are added with the request mission button and are due to start on the same date - they will be random

[Trevally.]

Originally Posted by gap

yes




I don't think we need to add much information. Just some basic details:

• the code name of the operation, when given/available;
• a bit of background, if possible;
• waypoints/area of the operation: when not stated, they can be roughly appraised from uboat.net's daily position logs;
• other duties eventually carried out, i.e. tonnage duties or other: again, they can be approximately deduced from the followed route, or from descriptive patrol logs available from many sources (I often used the aforementioned u-boat.net, and u-historia.com);
• at which moment of the patrol the special mission was carried out (i.e: before or after the normal tonnage duties);
• if possible, at which moment the order for the special mission was given (i.e. at base, or during mid patrol);
• other notable events that could be scripted into the mission, especially enemy attacks. As you know, from mid-war Allies managed to decipher the enigma code, and their presence in the theatre of U-boat operations wasn't exactly fortuitous

@Trevally, what do you think?

would this information prove useful for you? I there any important information that I have omitted?

guys, with the needed time, we will plot such an historically informed campaign that GWX's one will pale in comparison

I think the mission scripting is the best part of modding the campaign and the area I like working the most

So yes this is very useful. There are some restrictions that will prevent following history by the letter.
Mission dates may need to be stretched to ensure the mission gets a chance to be given However - if the current missions were mostly left in - these extra missions could be a rare occurrence

[Trevally.]

Originally Posted by keysersoze

Here is what I have so far:

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?iucv3cd6r735f84

Is this format okay? These are mainly missions dealing with transporting weather teams and setting up weather stations in the Arctic. When I get to the infiltration missions, I will be able to provide more background detail. The lat/long coordinates are only approximations based on a comparison of uboat.net patrol logs and mission information from other sources. They should not be considered the precise landing point for these weather teams, although some seem to be pretty close.

Yes - this format is good and is easy for me to follow

I also have a bunch of side projects that might benefit OHII. The first one is a collection of all the US Eighth Air Force bombing raids against U-boat ports. I'm not sure if it is possible to add this to the campaign layer (or maybe it already is?), but I think it would add tremendously to the immersion to be leaving La Rochelle just as a massive bombing raid shows up. Sadly, I don't have data for British raids yet. If anyone knows where I could find it, please let me know. Link:

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?w7uus10dz1uksd0

This is something I would love to add and have tried many times.
There are some issues that I have not been able to solve - the ctds
When even one aeroplane enter a harbour area and starts shooting - port traffic will return fire. risk of ctd=50%
More the one plane attacking adds to the ctd risk.

I have spent a lot ot time keeping planes away from harbours

I went ahead and finished the chart of milk cow resupply operations. The first link also includes notes on the mechanics of resupplying at sea. I'm not sure if they would be helpful, but I included them just in case. The second link is just the milk cow chart in excel format, in case you just want the data.

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?q1u1hrgdih2hm1t

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?99io0g388harkyg

Very good keysersoze thanks
When adding resupply ships/u-boats to the campaign - I can do it in two main ways.

The first is by zone - this is where you request resupply by radio and is the most common and flexible way to do it.
It can only be done by campaign layer with no date control - So I can say what ship to use, its name etc - but not when to stop - it will be there for the whole campaign section.

The secomd way is to script them into a mission where it will be triggered. This gives full control but needs to fit with a mission

[gap]

Originally Posted by keysersoze

Here is what I have so far:

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?iucv3cd6r735f84

Is this format okay? These are mainly missions dealing with transporting weather teams and setting up weather stations in the Arctic. When I get to the infiltration missions, I will be able to provide more background detail.

Excellent

I would only add information on the area patrolled before or after accomplishing the special mission, if any: i.e. British coastal waters, western approaches north of Ireland, Caribbean, West Africa, etc. This way, Trevally would get a rough idea of which one of the yet scripted OHII objectives can realistically feature the suggested mission.

As for the rest, the information resumed by you is more than enough. What do you think Trevally?

On a side note, I see you provided information on mine laying missions. Unfortunately mines were not yet modded in SH5, and I don't see how minelaying could be made in a "mission accomplished" triggering condition. But who knows, maybe one day...

Originally Posted by keysersoze

The lat/long coordinates are only approximations based on a comparison of uboat.net patrol logs and mission information from other sources. They should not be considered the precise landing point for these weather teams, although some seem to be pretty close.

As I see it, approximate coordinates are absolutely bearable. Who could notice that they are not 100% historically correct by the way?

Originally Posted by keysersoze

I also have a bunch of side projects that might benefit OHII. The first one is a collection of all the US Eighth Air Force bombing raids against U-boat ports. I'm not sure if it is possible to add this to the campaign layer (or maybe it already is?), but I think it would add tremendously to the immersion to be leaving La Rochelle just as a massive bombing raid shows up. Sadly, I don't have data for British raids yet. If anyone knows where I could find it, please let me know.

IIRC correctly, SH5 got issues with bombing raids (game gets unstable). Unfortunately Trevally had to limit Allied planes ranges, just tro prevent them from attacking home ports

Originally Posted by keysersoze

I went ahead and finished the chart of milk cow resupply operations. The first link also includes notes on the mechanics of resupplying at sea. I'm not sure if they would be helpful, but I included them just in case. The second link is just the milk cow chart in excel format, in case you just want the data.

man, you rock

unfortunately resupplying procedures are enormously semplified in SH5: just move toward the resupplying unit and click the refit button when close enough. Nonetheless I hope Trevally can profit from your documents for improving a bit refittings at sea.

P.S: have you seen any account of resuppying units trying to ram into the resupplied U-boat? Was this the ormal protocol? If yes, there are chances tha it can be simulated in game

Originally Posted by keysersoze

I love the ambition!

Although SH3 GWX is a more polished game than SH5 right now, SH5 has so much more potential with special missions and mid-patrol orders. If it was possible to have an SH3-style grid square assignment be the default patrol order (instead of an open-ended campaign like "patrol the Western Approaches), combined with the dynamic special missions of OHII, I think we would have a perfect campaign.

I think that Illyustrator's MQK grid will make a nice addition to Open Horizon's campaign

Originally Posted by Trevally.

I will not be able to use the send weather report button for any trigger within the missions. Only using radio messages to inform player to send the message, but the campaign will not know if the message was sent or not.

I wonder why devs created an option for sending weather reports, since it is not used. Probably another unfinished feature...

Anyhow, I think we can live with it

Originally Posted by Trevally.

The campaign can add random chance factors to a patrol area wher planes or ships could be spawned and enter the area - this could be due to overuse of radio transmissions.

besides the enemy attacks tha you can script for simulating radio interceptions, I think that by default the game woul roll dices for determining if any of the messages sent by our radio operator was intercepted by the enemy. Or at least it should be so. Do you know if this feature actually works in campaign?

Originally Posted by Trevally.

Random missions can be used by the request mission button. This is the only way to add a mission script to the campaign other than adding it as a layer.
So if scripted missions are added with the request mission button and are due to start on the same date - they will be random

Maybe a better way to mimic random group assignation, could be adding hidden and mutually excluding mission triggers to the objective. It wouldn't be totally random, but since the player wouldn't know the trigger for each group, the result would be the same

Originally Posted by Trevally.

I think the mission scripting is the best part of modding the campaign and the area I like working the most

So yes this is very useful. There are some restrictions that will prevent following history by the letter.
Mission dates may need to be stretched to ensure the mission gets a chance to be given However - if the current missions were mostly left in - these extra missions could be a rare occurance

In my opinion, being proposed a singular "special missions" should be a rare evenience. But since there would be many missions of each type, during our career we would still have some chances to cope with the requirements of at least few of them. Widening their availability dates, but not too much, would ensure that each time we play again a campaign, there are chances that we will be assigned different duties from the last time we played it...