[REL] RFB/Real Fleet Boat for 1.5

[limkol]

Thanks for the new patch guys.

Appreciate the hard work and the input from all sides. Makes interesting reading. Every body has an opinion, right or wrong, sometimes both. My opinion is, that modders do what they can to improve the game. Nobody sets out to make a game worse. If you don't like it, leave it. If the modder does not agree with the feedback he receives.......fine.There are always other mods out there..........or create your own. I don't have those skills so I am grateful for any alternatives. If I try a mod out and it's not for me......... fine.
Haven't we lost enough modders already?

[Gorshkov]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

You do not count, as you have disqualified yourself by lack of data, helpfulness and work. The RFB team works for those who are appreciative of their efforts. Oh..... You are disqualified on that basis also.:rotfl:

Read always my latest posts. That way you will not be so funny with your statements about "lack of disqualified data" or so. :rotfl:

[Fincuan]

Gorschkov, the link you posted is on torpedos, mostly their technical data. Data on sinkings is what you'd need. "I feel", "well it should", "I'm not an idiot so I don't need" are all lame excuses, usually seen in an argument when the ship starts sinking.

[Larson]

I have a question. I play with TMO, RSRDC and OM. Can i play RFB together with the other mods or isnt it possible?

[tater]

Originally Posted by Gorshkov

Quite clever move to narrow historical data only to one twelfth of WW2 time period! Yet as Mikhail pointed out there are comprehensive data regarding entire WW2 period available on Uboat.net and it is almost certain that vast majority of Allied ships sunk after one or maximum two torpedo hits! Besides above data are completely irrelevant to us because in SH4 we can play U-boats only in 1943-45 timeframe.

You do realize, that you effectively said exactly what LukeFF did as well, right?

The data he linked to said 40% were one hit. You yourself said the majority were one OR MAXIMUM TWO hits. 50% could be two hits, and the combined % of 1 or 2 hits would be 90%. You'd added nothing in terms of data that doesn't agree with what Luke posted.

The data is also different source wise. The best data comes from having both the shooter and target's log data. In the case of the japs, their logs are mostly at the bottom of the ocean. In the case f the Germans, THEIR logs are mostly at the bottom of the ocean (U-boats on average sank what, 3-4 ships before being sunk themselves (averaged over the war)?

So the earlier period for U-boats is probably a great time to judge effectiveness, particularly close to the US. Why? Because the crews on both sides very likely survived, so there is probably good log data for both sides. Later in the war, the u-boats were less likely to survive—course in their chatty way they probably published their log data over the radio. Also, with more aggressive and numerous ASW assets, the boats might no thave been able to stick around to really assess the damage done per hit like they could attacking a lone ship at their leisure.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Fincuan

Gorschkov, the link you posted is on torpedos, mostly their technical data. Data on sinkings is what you'd need. "I feel", "well it should", "I'm not an idiot so I don't need" are all lame excuses, usually seen in an argument when the ship starts sinking.

His ship is already sunk. He just hasn't started breathing under water yet. Once he does our problems will be over.

It's time to bring Gorshkov's charade to an end and do what I am doing. Just click here: Add Gorshkov to your ignore list.

Problem solved! Trolls suck.

[:FI:Rabitski]

Can I just ask if the periscope lock issue has been taken care off in the latest patch. And if not, are there plans to do so, and when might one expect to see this issue resolved. I would also like to state that RFB and RSRD are really great additions to this game, and would like to thank all who labored on this venture. I play the game with 100% diff. settings so the periscope lock issue is a big deal for me, that or I'm doing something wrong which is not unheared off .

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Larson

I have a question. I play with TMO, RSRDC and OM. Can i play RFB together with the other mods or isnt it possible?

Larson, TMO and RFB are not compatible in any way. You can use RFB, RSRD, and OM together. In fact the modders work together to ensure that is possible without problems.

[Gorshkov]

Originally Posted by Fincuan

Gorschkov, the link you posted is on torpedos, mostly their technical data. Data on sinkings is what you'd need. "I feel", "well it should", "I'm not an idiot so I don't need" are all lame excuses, usually seen in an argument when the ship starts sinking.

I guess you and some other buddies cannot or do not want to understand sad for RFB mod reality: Firstly overall data from Uboat.net clearly show almost all Allied ships sunk after one or two torpedo hits. I am sure sinking after one hit was also a vast majority of these two cases. Secondly you got technical data that middle to late war German torpedoes were more powerful due to enlarged warhead's weight (even by 50% factor!!!) which clearly explains why Allied merchants sunk after so small amount of hits.

That is why it is clear to me that in SH4/UBM game period (1943-45) U-boats possessed torps with more powerful warheads than their American counterparts. Therefore if RFB mod is to be called REAL I demand to take this facts into account and increase German torpedo power to appropriate level. In other words no T3 tankers sinking after at least 3 hits!

Moreover no prate about "U-boats logs in the bottom of the ocean" and similar nonsense cannot change above facts, so you should save your time for this type of silly argumentation.

Cheers!

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Gorshkov

I guess you and some other buddies cannot or do not want to understand sad for RFB mod reality: Firstly overall data from Uboat.net clearly show almost all Allied ships sunk after one or two torpedo hits. I am sure sinking after one hit was also a vast majority of these two cases. Secondly you got technical data that middle to late war German torpedoes were more powerful due to enlarged warhead's weight (even by 50% factor!!!) which clearly explains why Allied merchants sunk after so small amount of hits.

That is why it is clear to me that in SH4/UBM game period (1943-45) U-boats possessed torps with more powerful warheads than their American counterparts. Therefore if RFB mod is to be called REAL I demand to take this facts into account and increase German torpedo power to appropriate level. In other words no T3 tankers sinking after at least 3 hits!

Moreover no prate about "U-boats logs in the bottom of the ocean" and similar nonsense cannot change above facts, so you should save your time for this type of silly argumentation.

Cheers!

Gorshkov,

You are in no position to demand anything especially when a mod is provided to you free of charge. If you are not statisfied with torpedo performance, play a unmodded version or create you own version. You know, there are plenty here that would make you a small mod that increased the torps to your liking. All you need to do is ask.

The only fact we need to concern ourselves with it this is a game and not real life. It is doing it's best to simulate real life but is very limited. Based on what was studied, these studies are applied to the game as best possible. Please keep that in mind.

[tater]

You "demand?"


Wow.

[Fincuan]

If uboat.net data clearly shows it I'm sure you've got some numbers on that. How clearly? What are the numbers? Why are you sure that almost all of them sunk after one hit, anything to back this up? I'd to see the data you base those opinions on, other than browsing through uboat.net manually.

Just for the record I ran another test with RFB + the newest patch, this time with me in a Gato using MK14s. Target's were small - medium sized ships, ranging from Small Old Split Freighter to a Hog Island Type A Freighter, and none of them took more than two torpedoes. What exactly is the issue here?

[Fincuan]

Here's something interesting from uboat.net. I started browsing from Liberty Ships, and here's five randomly selected snippets, the first five I clicked:

Originally Posted by uboat.net

At 16.38 hours on 6 Jul, 1942, the John Witherspoon (Master John Stewart Clark) was torpedoed by U-255 about 20 miles from the shore of Novaya Zemlya. The ship had been in convoy PQ-17 which was dispersed on Admiralty orders in the Barents Sea on 4 Jul, 1942. One torpedo struck on the starboard side between the #4 and #5 holds, followed by a second torpedo about one minute later underneath the bridge. At 16.55 hours, two coups de grâce were fired, which struck on the port side amidships and broke the ship in two, causing her to sink within minutes.

Originally Posted by uboat.net

At 03.00 hours on 23 Jan, 1943, the ship was hit by a torpedo from U-175 between #1 and #2 holds, but it did not severely damage the ship. The radio antenna was shorted and the engines were secured as the ship took a starboard list. Within five minutes the Benjamin Smith righted herself after the water equalized in the holds and the engines were restarted. The master tried to get away steering a zigzag pattern with a speed of six knots. 20 minutes after the first hit a second torpedo struck the starboard side about ten feet aft of the engine room. The ship was then abandoned by the complement of eight officers, 35 men and 23 armed guards (the ship was armed with one 5in and nine 20mm guns) in three lifeboats and a raft. Shortly after they got away a third torpedo struck the port side amidships, causing her to sink quickly by the stern about 50 miles off Cape Palmas, Liberia.

Originally Posted by uboat.net

he Mark Hanna (Master Henry Hoeppner) in station #33 was struck by one torpedo on the port side at the #5 hold. The explosion opened a hole of 40 to 30 foot in the port and several smaller holes in the starboard side. Booms fell, the deck buckled, the hatch cover flew off, the rudder jammed and the shaft broke, but there were no casualties among the 41 crew members and 25 armed guards (the ship was armed with one 5in, five 20mm and two .30cal guns).
The ship steered towards the also disabled James Smith and the master ordered the men in the two port lifeboats to abandon ship and to return after the collision, but the ships did not collide and the boats drifted away. The 33 men in them were later picked up by the American submarine chaser USS PC-592 and landed at Trinidad on 13 March. The remaining crew helped to get the vessel under tow and arrived in Trinidad on 17 March.
On 23 May, the Mark Hanna left Trinidad in tow after temporary repairs, arriving in New Orleans on 12 June for permanent repairs. She returned to service on 29 September.

Originally Posted by uboat.net

At 18.03 hours on 3 Jan, 1945, the Henry Miller (Master Charles William Spear) in station #51 of convoy GUS-63 was torpedoed by U-870 22 miles southwest of Cape Spartel. One torpedo struck at the bulkhead between #2 and #3 holds. The engines were secured as a fire started at the #3 hold, but the holds were soon filled by water and it extinguished the flames.
The ship, now down by the head and listing to port, lost way and drifted aft of the convoy, but the complement of eight officers, 36 crewmen, 27 armed guards (the ship was armed with two 3in and eight 20mm guns) and one passenger (US Army security officer) remained on board. The master decided to restart the engines and make it to Gibraltar 50 miles away. 40 minutes after the attack the master ordered 25 crew members, 24 armed guards and the passenger to leave the ship in two lifeboats in case a bulkhead failed. They were picked up 15 minutes later by USS Brunswick (PF 68) and landed at Gibraltar the next day.
At 03.00 hours on 4 January, the skeleton crew brought the Henry Miller under her own power into Gibraltar, where she was declared a total loss. After the war the wreck was towed to Spain and scrapped.

[kwbgjh2]

Originally Posted by LukeFF

Show me screenshots of this behavior in action. Again, I can sink any small merchant with one torpedo, placed just about anywhere outside of the bow and stern sections. Yet, all I've seen from you so far are nothing but unsubstantiated opinions about why you think this damage model is so bad.

I really hope that i am NOT forced to leave this community just because of a consciously abusing of my postings. If i had to use 4 torps in the past to sink a small freighter, i never said anything else : that is a problem of my missabililty of manual targetting. PLEASE READ THIS POST OF ME AND RESPECT IT:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...postcount=2012


I cant find anything else in my postings to RFB 1.52. The only question i several repeated was the behavior of ships after getting hit. This issue is to me absolutly solved with the actual patch of RFB.

I would be very glad, as a great fan of RFB (since TMO is obsolet) not be bounced around in this altercation.

[DeepIron]

I really hope that i am NOT forced to leave this community just because of a consciously abusing of my postings. If i had to use 4 torps in the past to sink a small freighter, i never said anything else : that is a problem of my missabililty of manual targetting.

Relax, no one is "consciously abusing" your posts. Someone, who has been since been identified, simply "added his (negative) spin" to what you originally posted and that is what the reaction is about. I wouldn't sweat it too much...

Glad to hear you're enjoying RFB! Cheers!