[REL] RFB/Real Fleet Boat for 1.5

[Gorshkov]

Originally Posted by Bosje

yes, best to leave the mod unmodded at this point, lol

i'll be interested to see what the patch brings

I hope all ships with new sinking model which means switching to Webster's mod ver. 2 at least for me!

***EDIT***

I have playtested RFB+Webster mods again and I must add that under-keel detonation is here probably more effective. For example I sunk above 9000 tons passenger liner with two torps using this method and mentioned above targeting procedure. I feel these two mods combined gave us the most realistic sinking model in all SH3 and SH4 stock and modded games versions!

[kwbgjh2]

Originally Posted by tater

kwbgjh2, in RL, there were many times they only "got credit" because they reported they herd breaking up noises, or secondary explosions, etc. "Heard" because they were held down by escorts. In some cases they got credit, others they did not. Sometimes they got credit, and postwar records show them to be wrong.

The game has no fog of war in this regard. It would be cool to see a sub sim that has credit separated from the actual results.

tater

Tater, i know that-- same procedure in kriegsmarine as in USNavy. But what i want to know: What shall i do? Since the knew damage model i never had a instant sinking. I must confess that i am to dumb for the stadimeter. I am using the manual targetting since i was able to assume the Dick O'Kane method teached by RockinRobbins' tutorial.

I dont know anything about firing at the funnel when not on automatic targetting. I can fire only up to six fish. Most the time i have no duds even dud torpedoes is setted. Maybe its because my max fire distances is 800 yards.

Back to my question: Lets say i fire 6 torpedoes (like i always do on ships > 4000 tons) and i have 6 impacts. What would a WW2 captain have done ?? Go away ?! If i do so so... i would never get anything, because the minimum sinking time of all ships i hit before was > 2 hrs game time. My problem would not be getting some times credits and sometimes not...

I fear the day when i see the first big aim guarded by DD. In my first 9 months of the new carreer i only got on single merchants.

[Gorshkov]

Originally Posted by kwbgjh2

Back to my question: Lets say i fire 6 torpedoes (like i always do on ships > 4000 tons) and i have 6 impacts. What would a WW2 captain have done ?? Go away ?! If i do so so... i would never get anything, because the minimum sinking time of all ships i hit before was > 2 hrs game time. My problem would not be getting some times credits and sometimes not...

I fear the day when i see the first big aim guarded by DD. In my first 9 months of the new carreer i only got on single merchants.

So therefore we need more powerful torpedoes in RFB mod because they cause more damage which means faster flooding and finally reduction of sinking time two to fourfold! Otherwise there is no way to wait two hours close to hit merchant especially if she can go away in convoy on high speed.

@LukeFF: Check if some merchants do not have too big draft values. I fired several times torps set at influence detonator and exactly specific draft value but they flew under ship with no explosion. For example:

- Medium Old European Composite: ONI draft 7,6 m but real draft 5 m
- Small Passenger Carrier: ONI draft 5,2 m but real draft 4 m

[Bosje]

gorshkov: torpedoes are prone to running too deep, its a torpedo failure which is modeled into the game

[DeepIron]

So therefore we need more powerful torpedoes in RFB mod because they cause more damage which means faster flooding and finally reduction of sinking time two to fourfold! Otherwise there is no way to wait two hours close to hit merchant especially if she can go away in convoy on high speed.

Please note the following:
1. In RL in the Pacifc theatre, ships could take from minutes to hours to sink. Often, US subs didn't get to "stick around" and were credited with sinkings AFTER the war. That how it was...
2. Magnetic detonators were unreliable in the Pacific due to changes in the Pacific magnetic fields vs the Atlantic in which ONLY A SINGLE TESTING of the magnetic exploders were conducted by NavBuOrd. Many Pacific fleet skippers ordered the magnetic detonators disabled.
3. The ship acceleration model is being examined by the RFB TEAM. It is a work in progress and a known issue from the stock game.

You have webster's mods... be satisfied with them. It's highly doubtful that the RFB TEAM will overhaul the torpedo damage model any further.

[IronPerch]

During my last patrol i hit Medium Modern Composite Freighter with my last three torpedoes (bow and stern hits, under the masts, magnetic detonations, but way above the max. Draft). She kept going round 7 - 10 knot even when flooded to the deck level. After few hour of shadowing she was still doing fine so i decided to finnish her with the deck gun... but, i ran out of ammo before anything happened (hull shots, below waterline, close range). In that point i was so frustrated (well simulated...) that i decided ruin my career by ramming her with my boat, to see is it possible to sink her without anykind of ammunition... didn't help. She must have been loaded with the kork or ping-pong balls... Finally i decided to head back to port. I allmost made it but the game crashed (has happened only twice before with different mods than RFB...).

A sad story....Anyway i noticed that my boat didn't take anykind of damage while i was ramming the Medium Modern Composite Freighter and listening the colision sound. Was this somekind of "momentary lapse of reason" that finally leaded to game crash or "bug" in (fleet)boats damage model?

[Gorshkov]

1. In reality this is correct but it is possible with SH4 game engine to be credited with kill without being close during ship's sinking? If no, we are deprived of large parts of credit which WW2 skippers were granted.

2. OK, but this magnetic detonator malfunctions are also active in RFB mod without dude torpedoes selected in game options? If so, I will use only contact detonators and torpedo depth set at 3 meters all the time.

PS. Of course increasing torpedo power has not to be in the RFB designers scope. All depends on how good sinking mechanism will be. Simply if ships sink too long or after unrealistic number of hits, some people will use "software accelerators" to fix this issue. Other guys can feel well with RFB sinking model and will use "stock RFB".

[Gorshkov]

Originally Posted by IronPerch

In that point i was so frustrated (well simulated...) that i decided ruin my career by ramming her with my boat, to see is it possible to sink her without anykind of ammunition... didn't help. She must have been loaded with the kork or ping-pong balls... Finally i decided to head back to port. I allmost made it but the game crashed (has happened only twice before with different mods than RFB...).

A sad story....

Certainly sad! If you are really frustrated try Webster's mod version 3 (for hardcore users!). I am sure you will be happy all the time! One torpedo hit destroys about half of ship's compartments. No way any junk could escape several hours at 10 knots! :rotfl:

Additionally type XXI U-boat still missing Walter propulsion control. Yet the worse is I cannot fix this problem by replacing HUD.dds file that taken from Trigger Maru mod. It was possible in previous RFB version.

A sad story...

[Rockin Robbins]

Folks, the RFB people have passed judgment on your ideas of more destructive torpedoes. They break RFB. I suggest you take your irrelevant discussion elsewhere into your own thread.

For better or worse, RFB is what its creators say it is. Please make room for those who appreciate these people's hard work. In Observer's damage thread alone there were over 475 messages during exhaustive testing of the damage models. These people know what they're doing and are very good at it.

If you just want to blow stuff up, don't use half-measures. Load up my Subnuclear Weapons and go to town!

[LukeFF]

The patch for 1.52 is complete and has been uploaded to the server. See the first link in this thread for details.

Fixes:

• Fixes a problem with the ship damage model where ships would continue to steam on with hits to the machinery spaces.
• Fixes some minor issues with the submarine damage model.
• Fixes a problem where the Hog Island freighter would catch fire in heavy seas.
• Fixes the problem with flashing/flickering textures in the periscope and deck gun views.
• Adds in a couple of missing textures from the PE4 mod.
• Corrects the starting date for the acquisition of SJ-1 radar.
• Corrected max gyro angle on the Mark 10 torpedo to 90 degrees.

Changes:

• Adjusted the ammo count on the 5"/25 deck gun to 75 rounds.
• Removed the hull integrity indicator from the damage report page.
• Adjusted the default deck guns for all American subs.
• Some adjustments made to the visual spotting behavior for the player's submarine.
• "Return to Plotted Course" and "Recognition Manual" commands can now be accessed from any view.
• New sound for the wind in heavy seas.

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by Gorshkov

Well, I have tested RFB+Webster mods and I have gathered additional infos. So I report it to you:

- because in current RFB mod version only merchants have NYGM sinking model it is necessary to choose proper Webster mod version to find good equilibrium between sinking warships and merchants. That is why I must recommend ver. 1 of this mod because unfortunately ver. 2 is also too effective in sinking warships. I am sure if we get all ships with new sinking model in the future RFB version it will be good idea to switch to ver. 2!

- yet even with ver. 1 it is possible to sink merchants with small amount of torps. I was able to sink even ship above 5000 tons displacement with two torps but you have to get very precise hits! In short two hits must be placed near each other and both close to ship's aft or bow. Look at below screen-shot to see what I mean. That way merchants sink quite fast (15-30 minutes, sometimes a bit longer) not because of flooding but due to loosing of balance! That is a key factor to overcome flaws associated with new sinking model. Of course this task is challenging because it requires precise targeting but that is exactly what most of us wants in such sim!

Go take this subject somewhere else if you want to talk about using RFB with a mod that perverts the damage model of RFB. Unless you have spent hundreds (yes, hundreds) of hours testing every single merchant ship with a wide variety of torpedo hit locations as we have done, you cannot possibly know how much effort has gone into this part of the mod to this date. Now, if you want to back up your claims with proven historical data, then by all means do so in this thread. That is the only way you can persuade us that something is not right with the mod and needs to be changed.

[Schultzy]

Wow, that was quick work with the patch. Great, thanks a lot!

Off to DL.

[Kruger]

Luke, chill out man. I think you're overreacting. Is this still a free forum, or is it RFB forum ?

[CobraDriver]

Excellent job with this mod, I love the thing but am I missing something about rigging for depth charges?

The manual says the OOD's should be moved to the open position in the con and that the player must manually rig for depth charges. So I have moved the guys to their location....and now what am I supposed to do to rig for DC's? A button to push, key command, something?

Or is this just a move the guys and it happens automatically kind-a-thing?

Anyhow, thanx for the efforts and any help with this dilemna.

CD

[kwbgjh2]

@LukeFF and the complete RFB Team !

This patch was all i needed. Downloading and installing it in a minute an then out for next patrol. Radar contact to a single merchant. Later identified as "Small Old Tanker". Everything was prepared for the perfect shot.
Suddenly he decided to change course from 238 to 270. To late for any changes. I fired four fish at him. 2 impacts at the stern, 2 missed.

With free camera i discovered that he had a big hole underwater and the screw was blown away.
And then a dream turned into reality. Maybe up to 2-3 min at all, the tanker lost his complete acceleration, lost his power and there he stood like a lame duck just drifted by the real calm pacific. WOW !!!

No need to tell what happend then.



Big thx to all your RFB Modders !!!