Destroyers Discussion (getting rid of pin point drops)

[thecaptain]

Thanks Redwine. I just saw this part of the thread. I'll give that a try.

The Captain

[Kpt-Wolf]

Has someone now the settings for the destroyer, that they are better as a download?
Because I cant read 28 pages

Thx
Wolf

[Redwine]

Originally Posted by Kpt-Wolf

Has someone now the settings for the destroyer, that they are better as a download?
Because I cant read 28 pages

Thx
Wolf

You have my last files used here....

http://rapidshare.de/files/9419664/D...Stage.zip.html

In my files you are too undetectable for pasive sensors when at Slow speed plus Silent Running.
Depth Charges and Helgedogs modified.
Decoys are more effective now.
Dummy DDs are not too dummy now, and uber DDs are not to uber now.
Not finished, on test yet.



In page 26 you have CB's files for download with interesting behaviour.

Ask Caspofungin, he has a set of files with very nice behaviour.



May be more users can share their files with you......

I will apreciate your comments.

[APHill]

Hi Rewine and CB,

Will your destroyer mods work with RUb 1.45?

Thanks,
AP Hill

[caspofungin]

at present, i'm trying to see if i can add a second active sonar to escorts, to simulate use of 144 q and 147 sword attachments -- giving escorts ability to maintain contact at close range. i've tried using the nodes for radio-direction rinding and radar detectors, which aren't used, with no joy.

does anyone have any ideas? eg how to add a second "n" node for active sonars?

this is just icing on the cake -- if it proves to be impossible, i'll just compromise on the ai_sensors values for type 144 and 147. but it would be nice to implement.

[rulle34]

@Redwine and CB.
Great work on this
What is the big difference in your mods?
(Have not read through all the pages)

[HEMISENT]

Redwine,
I DL'd your files last night, will be starting fresh this morning.
The pinging/active sonar had me going bonkers for a long time but your explanation made a lot of sense. I never thought about the possibility of DD's going active but the pinging sound not being heard(bug?). That explains sooo much regarding single DD behaviour.
So far I've come up with a sim.cfg which is pretty close to yours + an AI_dat file that seems to be working well-still working off of CB's posted settings as I think he's right on for a non RUB setup.

Thanks again.

Once again a huge Thank You for TT and his mini-tweaker

[Redwine]

Originally Posted by APHill

Hi Rewine and CB,

Will your destroyer mods work with RUb 1.45?

Thanks,
AP Hill

I dont know anything about IUB or RUB :hmm: ...... i dont use them.

You can try and comment, back up your files and try...... you experience may be helpful for others....

Originally Posted by caspofungin

at present, i'm trying to see if i can add a second active sonar to escorts, to simulate use of 144 q and 147 sword attachments -- giving escorts ability to maintain contact at close range. i've tried using the nodes for radio-direction rinding and radar detectors, which aren't used, with no joy.

does anyone have any ideas? eg how to add a second "n" node for active sonars?

this is just icing on the cake -- if it proves to be impossible, i'll just compromise on the ai_sensors values for type 144 and 147. but it would be nice to implement.

With full respect and consideration for your job ..... i tryed your files..... and DDs are very good maintaining contact on you.

With your files i have the behaviour i was looking to fix, DDs can maintain contact on me even when they are too near, just over me, and they can "look" my full rudder turns.

I like your files, they are very nice ..... but i think so DDs has good enought capability in your files, they follows my full rudder turns when just over me with no problems of contact loss......may be you dont need to increase it.

Just an opinion....... your files are nice.

Any way this is not a mod..... is a pack of diferent personal settings based on diferent personal tastes.

But your point to look how to add a sensor is so interesting an may be so useful....... maintain research.

Originally Posted by rulle34

@Redwine and CB.
Great work on this
What is the big difference in your mods?
(Have not read through all the pages)

I dont tryed CB files yet..... i dont finished mines.
But CB files has an interested behavior described by CB, DDs escorts, attack you, and after a logical time, they back to escort the convoy or battlegroup, as if they was worry about the presence of more subs, a wolf pack in the zone.


I am sticky now with radar warning, i cnat found how to rise up my radar warning sensor to the top of the snorkel and periscope to have radar warning when submerged at snorkel depth......

When finish i will take a look to CB files, i like his behavior, but i like those 30 hours prey and hunting on the sub too........

Both was real behaviors from real life....... will be wonderful if we can have both behaviours, in example long hunting for DDs (hunters) and CB behaviour for DEs (escorts) ..........

I dont know if it can be posible........ :hmm: :hmm:

Originally Posted by HEMISENT

Redwine,
I DL'd your files last night, will be starting fresh this morning.
The pinging/active sonar had me going bonkers for a long time but your explanation made a lot of sense. I never thought about the possibility of DD's going active but the pinging sound not being heard(bug?). That explains sooo much regarding single DD behaviour.

Yes, they are pinging you before you har the pings, it is not a bug, it is due to the settings for that sound into Sh3.sdl file....... i think so.

Almost with my files, go to periscope depth, put flank to be detected, they start up looking for you, you will see how they turn left and right looking for you..... Why for ? you are into the pasive sensor radio..... they are pinging (i set a restricted 30* wide angle for active sensors, they tun left right to reach a 90* sacnning zone) and you dont hear anything.

Click on the map icon for DD, you will see the dash lines for the active sensor.

Then when you enter into the active sensor radio, about its 80%, they detect you, using the active sensor they put you just on his bow..... and finish to turn left-right...... you are captured by active sensor...... you cant hear the pings.

Few seconds later, you start up haring the pings.

I think so it is due to the radio, volume, priority and more, settings into the Sh3.sdl file wich controls each sound....

May be it can be fixed. but not too much important, i think so.

Originally Posted by HEMISENT

So far I've come up with a sim.cfg which is pretty close to yours + an AI_dat file that seems to be working well-still working off of CB's posted settings as I think he's right on for a non RUB setup.

Thanks again.

What behaviour do you obtained..... post comments, may some body found a good blend between all diferent settings.

[CB..]

Originally Posted by Redwine

[
When finish i will take a look to CB files, i like his behavior, but i like those 30 hours prey and hunting on the sub too........

Both was real behaviors from real life....... will be wonderful if we can have both behaviours, in example long hunting for DDs (hunters) and CB behaviour for DEs (escorts) ..........

I dont know if it can be posible........ :hmm: :hmm:

should be do-able Red!

note that the generic DD's (from the mission editor menu) don't use the named sensors in the AI_sensor.dat--they in theory use the generic sensors entrys from the dat file---so sensor set up can be adjusted seperately for the named convoy escorts and by substituting un-named generic DD's for the named hunter killer ships these DD's will use seperately edited sensors--to achieve different behaviuor--

i've just had a quick check on the campaigb.rnd and it seems that some at least of the specific hunter killer groups use the "no name" DD's
so in theory all you need to do is edit the generic AI sensors AI_hydrophone etc etc

differently from the named sensors and you can get different behaviuor from these DD's ---perhaps requiring a small edit to some of the stock killer groups to make them generic DD's
like thus

[RndGroup 121]
GroupName=BRDDHunters_41_03
Category=0
CommandEntry=0
Long=-630500.000000
Lat=4345700.000000
Height=0.000000
DelayMin=60
DelayMinInterv=4320
SpawnProbability=35
RandStartRadius=0.000000
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
Heading=180.311005
Speed=14.000000
ColumnsNo=1
Spacing=500
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=true
CurrentInstanceID=0
GameEntryDate=19411228
GameEntryTime=100
GameExitDate=19420215
GameExitTime=0
NextWP=0

[RndGroup 121.RndUnit 1]
Type=4; <<<<<note the lack of "name"
Origin=British
Side=0
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19390101
No=1
Escort=false
SpawnProbability=100
CrewRating=2

[Redwine]

Originally Posted by CB..

should be do-able Red!

Are you Santa Klauss or what .... CB ?

So Good !

Originally Posted by CB..

note that the generic DD's (from the mission editor menu)

I dont explorate the mission editor yet, it seems to dont works fine for me, objects move from the position i put them, mouse is sticky.....not too much experience there.

Originally Posted by CB..

don't use the named sensors in the AI_sensor.dat--they in theory use the generic sensors entrys from the dat file---so sensor set up can be adjusted seperately for the named convoy escorts and by substituting un-named generic DD's for the named hunter killer ships these DD's will use seperately edited sensors--to achieve different behaviuor--

i've just had a quick check on the campaigb.rnd and it seems that some at least of the specific hunter killer groups use the "no name" DD's

so in theory all you need to do is edit the generic AI sensors AI_hydrophone etc etc

It sounds good..... because it is easy to do. But....
If i am not wrong the main point responsible for the behaviour in wich they stops to prey on you...... and back to escort the convoy o battlegroup is due to the losse contact time .........

[AI detection]
Lost contact time=15 ;[min]

[AI detection]
Lost contact time=5 ;[min]

I am wrong ?

Originally Posted by CB..

differently from the named sensors and you can get different behaviuor from these DD's

This is a poin..... how do you make them to have that behaviour editing the generic sensors ?

Originally Posted by CB..

---perhaps requiring a small edit to some of the stock killer groups to make them generic DD's
like thus

[RndGroup 121]
GroupName=BRDDHunters_41_03
Category=0
CommandEntry=0
Long=-630500.000000
Lat=4345700.000000
Height=0.000000
DelayMin=60
DelayMinInterv=4320
SpawnProbability=35
RandStartRadius=0.000000
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
Heading=180.311005
Speed=14.000000
ColumnsNo=1
Spacing=500
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=true
CurrentInstanceID=0
GameEntryDate=19411228
GameEntryTime=100
GameExitDate=19420215
GameExitTime=0
NextWP=0

[RndGroup 121.RndUnit 1]
Type=4; <<<<<note the lack of "name"
Origin=British
Side=0
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19390101
No=1
Escort=false
SpawnProbability=100
CrewRating=2

I cant understand well this point.

Are you refering in example to erase some lines to convert them into units using generic sensors in example like this......

[Unit 93]
;Name=BR DD Clemson#4 >>>>> erased by the ;
;Class=DDClemson >>>>> erased by the ;
Type=4
Origin=British
Side=1

Can you explain this point step by step .....more for "dummies" :rotfl:

[CB..]

well obviously there are limitations--but was just trying to offer some possibilities--

you'll have to use a bit of imagination ----scary i know--

[caspofungin]

@redwine

surprised you're still getting the uber-following, i haven't seen that in campaign or in tests. bear in mind that escorts can hear you at anything greater than ahead slow -- you must be at silent running.

re different behaviour for escorts vs h/k groups
that would be pretty sweet. how to implement, though.... the generic ai_sonar in ai_sensors file would allow you to alter their detection chances, but the contact time is still defined in sim.cfg, without separation between generic ships and named classes. maybe give them hydrophones w/ extreme long range and high sensitivity?

[Redwine]

Originally Posted by caspofungin

@redwine

surprised you're still getting the uber-following, i haven't seen that in campaign or in tests. bear in mind that escorts can hear you at anything greater than ahead slow -- you must be at silent running.

Understand, i was having protection by silent running at low speed, but that i want to explain is they has very good detection when just at my back so near and even over me.

I suspect you use very depth angles and short min ranges for sensors, so they dont lose the link when so near.

Your files are nice, that i want to mention was i think so you dont need to increase Dds capability more than that, ofcourse it is just a matter of personal pleasure, only a feed back, nothing more.

Originally Posted by caspofungin

re different behaviour for escorts vs h/k groups
that would be pretty sweet. how to implement, though.... the generic ai_sonar in ai_sensors file would allow you to alter their detection chances, but the contact time is still defined in sim.cfg, without separation between generic ships and named classes.

That was what i asked to CB.
Lose contact time is the same for all :hmm:

[CCIP]

CB - just tried playing a bit with yours, and it seems pretty interesting so far.

Two questions:

1) Did you set a minimum depth for enemy hydrophone detections or do they can they hear you on the surface, too? Just checking, sort of suspicious if it was radar that did me in. It would really mess things up a bit for me if they could, but I think by default they aren't.

2) The sonar pinging is ever-present, but I'm wondering how often they actually ping me directly as opposed to just hearing me. :hmm:

[CCIP]

I think I mostly answered my own questions there by taking a look at the sensors file.

Looks quite a bit like stock, actually. I'm thinking it might be worth reducing the sonar arcs a little bit to avoid overkill by some of the more persistent ships later in the war, but we'll see :hmm:

I'm really starting to come around to your way of managing these things, actually. As much as it's good to have escorts chasing you for a long time, it seems that an occasional short but harsh attack and a better chance of the enemy getting a quick fix on you may well benefit the game mechanics and balance the dangers more realistically.