Destroyers Discussion (getting rid of pin point drops) - Page 43

HEMISENT · 12-12-05, 08:12 AM

Hi CB, Thanks for the update. sad to say not much difference.
I just did a fresh install using RUB1.45*HT mods then inserted all your updates. I went back to sept 1943 campaign(same as before) ran across a convoy escorted by 5 DD's. All 5 hounded me for about 45 minutes pinging me only two or three times. 4 DD's left leaving one behind to keep me under-very tenacious. Same basic problem as before within the 1000m radius meter is green, DD goes outside the radius, meter goes red, DD gets a fix and comes back to me (meter is green)and drops a few. This went on for 3 hours very repetitive/boring.
Then I notice another DD approaching long distance. Both ships stopped at 1000m dead still (no pinging just sitting) I brought my boat to all stop and let her slowly sink(meter is red) after a half hour of this nonsense I attempted to escape at 1 kt/150m/SR.
I was able to escape to 3500m both (DD's still sitting). just to see what happens i brought boat to 100m, disabled SR, speed 3kts. That they heard
Both ships fired up and headed directly for me at high speed. at about 1500m one ship held back slowly zig zagging and the other proceeded to DC the crap out of me-he won.
Once the second DD showed up to lend a hand things got interesting again.

Observation:
When two or more DD's are involved in a hunt they work well together, some hanging back listening, others making DC runs. Great game play/great immersion
When only one DD is involved its very repetitive/round robin back and forth to the 1000m line, get a fix, attack, back to the line etc, etc,
I have tried every sort of evasion I can think of for hours but no way to escape but also no way for him to get accurate fix.
I have no clue how to solve this-Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

CB.. · 12-12-05, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HEMISENT

Observation:
When two or more DD's are involved in a hunt they work well together, some hanging back listening, others making DC runs. Great game play/great immersion
When only one DD is involved its very repetitive/round robin back and forth to the 1000m line, get a fix, attack, back to the line etc, etc,
I have tried every sort of evasion I can think of for hours but no way to escape but also no way for him to get accurate fix.
I have no clue how to solve this-Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

thanks for the feed-back

this mod is designed to exploit the co-operation between the escorts to the full--forcing them to rely on each other to find and attack the contacts--glad this aspect is working well for you--and you can see the benifits--

i've not had the problems your having with lone DD's- i don't know why this is happenning-my only thought is that there's something in RUB that tips the balance on the sensors perhaps the high lost contact time i'm told RUB uses?
this set up uses a far shorter lose contact time to balance out the slightly ubered hydrophones--

[AI detection]
Lost contact time=6 ;[min]

this creates escape windows against the DD's and allows them to search find ,lose, re find- contacts in a fairly dynamic fashion--and gives you the ability to shake them--

i will keep an eye out for this problem and others as i play thru the career--(the one you describe would be fairly hard to miss it has to be said! )
i don't have RUB or any other large scale game modifications installed so can't take those things into consideration--

check you have used all the entrys from the sim.cfg i gave-- if you are using all the entrys then it's probably fair to say this mod is incompatible with RUB as it stands--and you'll have to weigh the pro's and cons

HEMISENT · 12-12-05, 10:45 AM

CB
How exactly does "lost contact time=" work? what would happen if it were set lower or higher?

CCIP · 12-12-05, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HEMISENT

CB
How exactly does "lost contact time=" work? what would happen if it were set lower or higher?

The destroyers would circle in the same area that they last had contact with you for that length of time.

Setting it higher than 45 minutes is impractical, because by that time you're usually far enough from them to surface safely :hmm:

CB.. · 12-12-05, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HEMISENT

CB
How exactly does "lost contact time=" work? what would happen if it were set lower or higher?

Yup as CIIP said

it means that once they have lost contact with you (which happens constantly with this mod) they start to leave the area and either return to their convoy escort position or if a lone DD return to following it's original way points/route--i prefer this system as it allows the DD's to do their job taking into consideration that if this were in fact real--they would be aware that there was more than one u-boat in the sea- so might be less inclined to stay away from their convoys for longer than neccessary --they'll soon be back if you get too close again--

this gives you the opportunity to evade---especailly if can get into their natural blindspot directly behind them---once they have reached 4-6 thousand metres from you -you are out side their detection range -and you can escape fully--that's pretty much how the mod is set up---

HEMISENT · 12-12-05, 06:28 PM

Thanks guys, just a bit more info to try and work this out. So far I really like the way everything works with two or more DD's. Its the single ship hunting me thats throwing me for a loop.

Reece · 12-12-05, 10:29 PM

Hi, having problems with net of late due to a nearby farms electric fence producing quite an audible click over the line, the modem doesn't like it, have reported the problem & they are calling in to test the lines, in the meantime I just have to hope that even this this reply gets through!!

It's been about a week & a half since I could view this thread, has there been any new developements or mods created yet?

Many thanks.

HEMISENT · 12-13-05, 07:19 AM

CB.
I disabled all mods down to vanilla + patch.
Then reinstalled your modified sim.cfg, made sure all hydrophones remained to your recommended settings as posted, sub revs to 250(on the VIIC that Im currently using). Fired up a fresh campaign mission last night and ran into a lone DD who behaved exactly as the previous single hunters did. Altho I did notice on his return from the 1000m line his drops are now more random and sporadic. He may drop close or he may make a hi speed pass and drop 500m away as he has no lock-still no pinging tho. May be too soon to tell but appears non-RUB play is a bit different than with. This current situation is still ongoing as Im looking for a way to evade without doing something bizarre. As it stands I have no hope of evading and he has no hope of hitting me unless he goes active which is not happening

The good news is that pin point drops are a thing of the past

CB.. · 12-13-05, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HEMISENT

CB.
I disabled all mods down to vanilla + patch.
Then reinstalled your modified sim.cfg, made sure all hydrophones remained to your recommended settings as posted, sub revs to 250(on the VIIC that Im currently using). Fired up a fresh campaign mission last night and ran into a lone DD who behaved exactly as the previous single hunters did. Altho I did notice on his return from the 1000m line his drops are now more random and sporadic. He may drop close or he may make a hi speed pass and drop 500m away as he has no lock-still no pinging tho. May be too soon to tell but appears non-RUB play is a bit different than with. This current situation is still ongoing as Im looking for a way to evade without doing something bizarre. As it stands I have no hope of evading and he has no hope of hitting me unless he goes active which is not happening

The good news is that pin point drops are a thing of the past

oh well you can but try!--

Redwine · 12-13-05, 08:55 AM

I still sticky on DDs radar detection...... :hmm:

Early DDs seems to be not ca[able to detect my periscope, even my snorkel.

They do it very near, then i am not sure if the detection was by radar or visually.

This behavior happens even with the original files.

May be it is historical correct, but make very happy the "happy times".

I decide to let it.

Now i am on planes radar detection, some ones seems to have not radar at all.

If i increase too much their capabilities, there are some missions with a very high quantity of planes activity, then the air attack become a night mare, and planes as Liberators and Catalinas become so deadly.

I was killed many times by them.

May be real, that is not real is the very high airplane activity into many third party missions, some times they seems to be ants in the sky .....

I decide to reduce their capabilities, so, if there are many of them, attacks number and probabilities will be reduced.

Now i am sticky looking for rise up the radar warning sensor of my sub, to positioning it at top of the snorkel or periscope, to have radar warning when sail at those depths.

But no way, i cant found how to do it yet.

I have another problem...... may be some one can help :

[AI Cannons]
Max error angle=3 ;[deg]

I set Max eror angle for AI cannons to high values, ie : 10, 15, 20, 25......, it make many shoots fails.

If you take the Bisckmark mission, you will see the two british battleships seems to be not afected by this value.

Even rising this error to 20 or 25, british battleships hits the Bisckmark with a good precision.

But this value affect the Bisckmark...... he dont hit any thing. :hmm:

May be there is another line affecting the AI cannon precision ?

Here my actual files if some body want to try them.....

http://rapidshare.de/files/9097023/D...Stage.zip.html

The main characteristic, is you are now good protected by low speed and low speed plus silent running.
Atctive and pasive sonar beams was reduced, radar capabilities was increased.

You must to manage well you attack pattern.

Loss contact time by default at 15 min, it makes your life a little bit hard. You can reduce it to have interesting CB behaviour.

CB.. · 12-13-05, 06:09 PM

aye

for the sake of folks have-ing something to try at the end of this long process--here's the files set up i've settled on---ai_sensors.dat and the sim.cfg only-- please read the thread for other touches you may or may not want to include-

http://www.ebort.com/files/SH3destest.zip

i have not experienced any problems with this set up---tho it has to be said others have had occasional difficultys with lone hunter killer DD's--

but it's --either way-- something else for folks to try

Jungman · 12-15-05, 10:43 AM

I am glad to see you found a solution to the DD "detection" problem.

Hey, I think its time to fire up the old game and check it out!

Kpt. Lehmann · 12-15-05, 03:13 PM

Many thanks for all your hard work gentlemen.

thecaptain · 12-15-05, 03:58 PM

Thanks for all your efforts!! My biggest gripe was that destroyers, in general, really behaved pretty dumb even when you were practically in their face. It was almost a relief when one of the uber DDs came along and gave you a run for your money. Hopefully, this mod will make the experience a lot more uniform. Again, thanks for all the time and work you've put into this.

The Captain

caspofungin · 12-15-05, 04:10 PM

@hemisent

(and others having issues w/ single destroyers)

consider implementing the min surface for sonars in ai_sensors -- a value of 60-80 seems to work best. allows you to evade active pinging by turning directly into or away from the escort, as was practiced irl. in combination w/ silent running, allows you to potentially get some distance and eventually break free.

12-12-05, 08:12 AM	#631
HEMISENT Ace of the Deep Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 1,052 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 0	Hi CB, Thanks for the update. sad to say not much difference. I just did a fresh install using RUB1.45HT mods then inserted all your updates. I went back to sept 1943 campaign(same as before) ran across a convoy escorted by 5 DD's. All 5 hounded me for about 45 minutes pinging me only two or three times*. 4 DD's left leaving one behind to keep me under-very tenacious. Same basic problem as before within the 1000m radius meter is green, DD goes outside the radius, meter goes red, DD gets a fix and comes back to me (meter is green)and drops a few. This went on for 3 hours very repetitive/boring. Then I notice another DD approaching long distance. Both ships stopped at 1000m dead still (no pinging just sitting) I brought my boat to all stop and let her slowly sink(meter is red) after a half hour of this nonsense I attempted to escape at 1 kt/150m/SR. I was able to escape to 3500m both (DD's still sitting). just to see what happens i brought boat to 100m, disabled SR, speed 3kts. That they heard Both ships fired up and headed directly for me at high speed. at about 1500m one ship held back slowly zig zagging and the other proceeded to DC the crap out of me-he won. Once the second DD showed up to lend a hand things got interesting again. Observation: When two or more DD's are involved in a hunt they work well together, some hanging back listening, others making DC runs. Great game play/great immersion When only one DD is involved its very repetitive/round robin back and forth to the 1000m line, get a fix, attack, back to the line etc, etc, I have tried every sort of evasion I can think of for hours but no way to escape but also no way for him to get accurate fix. I have no clue how to solve this-Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. __________________ Nuke 'em till they glow!

12-12-05, 10:45 AM	#633
HEMISENT Ace of the Deep Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 1,052 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 0	CB How exactly does "lost contact time=" work? what would happen if it were set lower or higher? __________________ Nuke 'em till they glow!

12-12-05, 06:28 PM	#636
HEMISENT Ace of the Deep Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 1,052 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 0	Thanks guys, just a bit more info to try and work this out. So far I really like the way everything works with two or more DD's. Its the single ship hunting me thats throwing me for a loop. __________________ Nuke 'em till they glow!

12-13-05, 07:19 AM	#638
HEMISENT Ace of the Deep Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 1,052 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 0	CB. I disabled all mods down to vanilla + patch. Then reinstalled your modified sim.cfg, made sure all hydrophones remained to your recommended settings as posted, sub revs to 250(on the VIIC that Im currently using). Fired up a fresh campaign mission last night and ran into a lone DD who behaved exactly as the previous single hunters did. Altho I did notice on his return from the 1000m line his drops are now more random and sporadic. He may drop close or he may make a hi speed pass and drop 500m away as he has no lock-still no pinging tho. May be too soon to tell but appears non-RUB play is a bit different than with. This current situation is still ongoing as Im looking for a way to evade without doing something bizarre. As it stands I have no hope of evading and he has no hope of hitting me unless he goes active which is not happening The good news is that pin point drops are a thing of the past __________________ Nuke 'em till they glow!

12-13-05, 08:55 AM	#640
Redwine Sea Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: San Martin de los Andes, Neuquen, , Argentina. Posts: 1,962 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I still sticky on DDs radar detection...... :hmm: Early DDs seems to be not ca[able to detect my periscope, even my snorkel. They do it very near, then i am not sure if the detection was by radar or visually. This behavior happens even with the original files. May be it is historical correct, but make very happy the "happy times". I decide to let it. Now i am on planes radar detection, some ones seems to have not radar at all. If i increase too much their capabilities, there are some missions with a very high quantity of planes activity, then the air attack become a night mare, and planes as Liberators and Catalinas become so deadly. I was killed many times by them. May be real, that is not real is the very high airplane activity into many third party missions, some times they seems to be ants in the sky ..... I decide to reduce their capabilities, so, if there are many of them, attacks number and probabilities will be reduced. Now i am sticky looking for rise up the radar warning sensor of my sub, to positioning it at top of the snorkel or periscope, to have radar warning when sail at those depths. But no way, i cant found how to do it yet. I have another problem...... may be some one can help : [AI Cannons] Max error angle=3 ;[deg] I set Max eror angle for AI cannons to high values, ie : 10, 15, 20, 25......, it make many shoots fails. If you take the Bisckmark mission, you will see the two british battleships seems to be not afected by this value. Even rising this error to 20 or 25, british battleships hits the Bisckmark with a good precision. But this value affect the Bisckmark...... he dont hit any thing. :hmm: May be there is another line affecting the AI cannon precision ? Here my actual files if some body want to try them..... http://rapidshare.de/files/9097023/D...Stage.zip.html The main characteristic, is you are now good protected by low speed and low speed plus silent running. Atctive and pasive sonar beams was reduced, radar capabilities was increased. You must to manage well you attack pattern. Loss contact time by default at 15 min, it makes your life a little bit hard. You can reduce it to have interesting CB behaviour. __________________ . "SH III and SH IV Mods" "Manual TDC Tutorial" "SH2 Downloads Selection"

12-12-05, 10:29 PM	#637
Reece CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Down Under Posts: 34,701 Downloads: 171 Uploads: 0	Hi, having problems with net of late due to a nearby farms electric fence producing quite an audible click over the line, the modem doesn't like it, have reported the problem & they are calling in to test the lines, in the meantime I just have to hope that even this this reply gets through!! It's been about a week & a half since I could view this thread, has there been any new developements or mods created yet? Many thanks.

12-13-05, 06:09 PM	#641
CB.. Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: UK Posts: 1,278 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	aye for the sake of folks have-ing something to try at the end of this long process--here's the files set up i've settled on---ai_sensors.dat and the sim.cfg only-- please read the thread for other touches you may or may not want to include- http://www.ebort.com/files/SH3destest.zip i have not experienced any problems with this set up---tho it has to be said others have had occasional difficultys with lone hunter killer DD's-- but it's --either way-- something else for folks to try __________________ the world's tinyiest sh3 supermod- and other SH3/SH2 stuff http://www.ebort2.co.uk/ The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. W.B.Yeats

12-15-05, 10:43 AM	#642
Jungman Samurai Navy Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Iowa, USA Posts: 596 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I am glad to see you found a solution to the DD "detection" problem. Hey, I think its time to fire up the old game and check it out!

12-15-05, 03:13 PM	#643
Kpt. Lehmann GWX Project Director Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The Republic of Texas Posts: 6,993 Downloads: 124 Uploads: 0	Many thanks for all your hard work gentlemen. __________________ www.thegreywolves.com All you need is good men. - Heinrich Lehmann-Willenbrock

12-15-05, 03:58 PM	#644
thecaptain Seaman Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 42 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Thanks for all your efforts!! My biggest gripe was that destroyers, in general, really behaved pretty dumb even when you were practically in their face. It was almost a relief when one of the uber DDs came along and gave you a run for your money. Hopefully, this mod will make the experience a lot more uniform. Again, thanks for all the time and work you've put into this. The Captain

12-15-05, 04:10 PM	#645
caspofungin Commander Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 459 Downloads: 41 Uploads: 0	@hemisent (and others having issues w/ single destroyers) consider implementing the min surface for sonars in ai_sensors -- a value of 60-80 seems to work best. allows you to evade active pinging by turning directly into or away from the escort, as was practiced irl. in combination w/ silent running, allows you to potentially get some distance and eventually break free.