Destroyers Discussion (getting rid of pin point drops)

[CCIP]

But you know the story. Driven by the curiosity of finding out what happens if you set the min range to 600 instead of 1000, even if they tell you it'll only mess things up. But you still have to see it for yourself, because a cooler destroyer might come out...

...I once stuck a paperclip into an electric outlet back when I was a kid for the very same reason

[CCIP]

CB -

Observations

1) Dropping the hydrophone Min Range from 1000 to 600 seems to have had a nice result. I'll have to play with it more, but it seems to give them just a little bit more of an idea where you are. It gives them a better chance of causing some damage.

2) I'm kind of worried about their hydrophone performance in storms. I think it's a little too good. It seems that they can hear me on the surface (since you often drop below the Max Height of -10m in storms), and it does seem a little odd to me that they can get my position despite huge waves while I'm at periscope depth. Maybe time to re-introduce a bit of a wave factor?

[CB..]

Originally Posted by CCIP

CB -

Observations

1) Dropping the hydrophone Min Range from 1000 to 600 seems to have had a nice result. I'll have to play with it more, but it seems to give them just a little bit more of an idea where you are. It gives them a better chance of causing some damage.

2) I'm kind of worried about their hydrophone performance in storms. I think it's a little too good. It seems that they can hear me on the surface (since you often drop below the Max Height of -10m in storms), and it does seem a little odd to me that they can get my position despite huge waves while I'm at periscope depth. Maybe time to re-introduce a bit of a wave factor?

all sounds fairly reasonable--but you know my view on this---if you spend the next 30 pages saying this destroyer did this and that destroyer did that your going to lose the ability to draw any use-full conclusions from any of it and no usable "work" will emerge at the end--

you know it's funny we discussed the worrys inherent in making mods of this nature in that some one some-where will put his imaginary gold braided hat on and pontificate about how such and such a thing wasn't realistic -or this in that was not as specified in this or that account -of this or that conflict--and just how often the "realism police" can end up worrying modders to death--- fortunately for me i have just enough experience modding for SH2 that i have allmost gotten this "worry" out of my system--so can say frankly i don't give a damn---reading between the lines of such comments reveals what is really being requested----lol --

--

[CCIP]

Fair enough, but I'll still play around with it a little

Just making observations. Mind you, I'm not really 'testing' it, just playing my patrols. I realize you've spent more time with this than is probably even needed, but the idea is still very novel to me, and I'm inherently used to trying to play around with it and look for things that could still be changed.

Don't worry about it then. But no need to read between the lines - and yes, I think we need to accept that by this point we won't get a 'realistic destroyer' in SHIII - but maybe at least a more balanced one. Which is why I'm still tweaking around. Not to say your version already isn't

[CB..]

Originally Posted by CCIP

Fair enough, but I'll still play around with it a little

Just making observations. Mind you, I'm not really 'testing' it, just playing my patrols. I realize you've spent more time with this than is probably even needed, but the idea is still very novel to me, and I'm inherently used to trying to play around with it and look for things that could still be changed.

Don't worry about it then. But no need to read between the lines - and yes, I think we need to accept that by this point we won't get a 'realistic destroyer' in SHIII - but maybe at least a more balanced one. Which is why I'm still tweaking around. Not to say your version already isn't

yes no problem--as you mention in the sonar thread because there is no genuine blind spot created after a DC explosion it's just demonstatebly impossible to create a fully "realism" based sensor mod--in fact the only way to create some sort of psuedo blind spot is to write extremely un-realistic figures into the files--couple that with the stock weaknesses of the AI to start with and any "realism" mod has to be forgotten completely--

(i believe co-incidentaly that the short lost contact time is allso the closest thing available for giving the impression of a DC blind spot)

no harm in experimenting tho--but any realism will be only as percieved in gameplay terms rather than specifically fact/figures based--all done with mirrors in other words lol!

[CCIP]

Yep.

Well, I'm just trying to mess around with the hydrophone a bit myself now, trying to make it just a touch less sensitive in certain conditions, so to say. I'm still not entirely clear on how it works, since it seems that the DD's seem to 'hear' you when you're on silent running even with engines completely 'dead'. :hmm:

Chances are, Uber is the best way to go. Looking back at my last patrol, I can't say my experience ended up being very far off from real accounts, even if it seemed like the DDs were a bit too sensitive sometimes. At least they actually chased me.

[Nedlam]

CB, you twisted, sick, masochistic modder!!

This mod is phenominal I tested it out in a quick engagement in a career campaign and have spent the past 1 1/2 just trying to shake off a lone River Class Escort! The only reason I lost it in the end is I broke down and used a decoy (I wanted to try it without gadgets first).

Frankly I was getting a little bored with the AI in the game. Dive to 100 - 150 meters, run silent, wait 15 - 20 minutes(game time), evade them, rinse and repeat.

I am going to have nightmares of that ASDIC: PING! PING! PING! PING!

I need to rethink the whole way I do things in this sim.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

and if there is anyone else I've missed that contributed to this (I see a lot of names running around in this thread) Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

[Marhkimov]

I can't believe I haven't tried CB's settings yet...

Must find time later on...

[CCIP]

CB -

do you mind if I release a custom-tweaked version of your mod when I'm eventually happy with it? With all due credit of course.


Actually, I think it would be nice for someone to compile a collection of the different sensor 'flavors' for people to choose from at will :hmm:

[Marhkimov]

If CB agrees, I think that's a great idea!

[Reece]

Ditto!

[caspofungin]

@CCIP

re tweaking hydrophones for dec sensitivity -- difficult.

the alteration in sim.cfg causes the hydrophones to become uber -- you'd get exactly the same effect if you were to just delete the [hydrophone] entry. most of the values have no effect -- apart from waves and noise, and i'm not sure that even they have an effect in the significantly altered [hydrophone] section (at least in my experience, in prolonged testing in single missions and campaign). correct me if i'm wrong.

if you want the hydrophones to be less sensitive in certain weather, replace the sim.cfg [hydrophone] entry w/ the stock. then drop the noise factor (>=1+ makes them deaf, 0 is uber -- in my setup, i use 1.0-0.8 -- allows you to become undetectable at silent running but limits the range you're detected at) then alter the waves factor (0 is deaf, 1 is uber.)

the problem w/ returning the sim.cfg to its original configuration is that you lose the hypersensitivity. eg if you delete the [hydrophone] values, you'll be picked up instantly at the range defined in ai_sensors for that given hydrophone. if you use the original [hydrophone] config, even if you drop the noise factor, you'll never get detected at anywhere near the same range as w/ the hyper setup, and you won't get the same dd reactions.

cb's tweak works as effectively as it does because it makes the dd constantly acquire-lose-reaquire you. the hyper-hydrophones detect you at long range, then the high min range forces the use of active sonar. the result is a range of varied reactions, definitely superior to stock.

re different "flavours" of sensors--
http://rapidshare.de/files/9340606/s...ks0.2.rar.html

is what i'm using. check the readme. late war brit sonars are a work in progress. re the remainder -- currently testing in campaign to decide between current setup vs hyper sonar (delete [sonar] entry in sim.cfg but then decrease the arc to 80deg from 140 to give yourself a chance.) initially based on historical values [caspo ducks as cb flings monitor at head ] but gameplay is the end goal -- all feedback welcome. cb's setup gives varied dd behaviour, esp in groups -- escorts stop and listen, drop anywhere from 1 dc to a full barrage, etc. my setup -- see readme for details. different philosophy, different results.

[CCIP]

Actually, all I'm really doing with the hydrophones right now is reducing their maximum range. Since the contact info is shared by all units, I think we could get away with a 3km range rather than 8km.

We'll see, I suppose. I know I can't have everything

[CB..]

Originally Posted by CCIP

CB -

do you mind if I release a custom-tweaked version of your mod when I'm eventually happy with it? With all due credit of course.


Actually, I think it would be nice for someone to compile a collection of the different sensor 'flavors' for people to choose from at will :hmm:

go ahead--i will expect that credit of course -i had to fight quite hard to get folks to accept the concept--if i hadn't then i'm fairly sure no completed and workable mod would have resulted from this thread--and that's what my mod is a finished and workable mod that can be installed and work reliably right thro-out a normal campaign career--and that was the really difficult trick -- (include Col777 allso as it wouldn't have been possible without his work)


(i'm still smarting from the lack of credit for the merchant/leigh light concept!)

[CB..]

Originally Posted by Nedlam

CB, you twisted, sick, masochistic modder!!

This mod is phenominal I tested it out in a quick engagement in a career campaign and have spent the past 1 1/2 just trying to shake off a lone River Class Escort! The only reason I lost it in the end is I broke down and used a decoy (I wanted to try it without gadgets first).

Frankly I was getting a little bored with the AI in the game. Dive to 100 - 150 meters, run silent, wait 15 - 20 minutes(game time), evade them, rinse and repeat.

I am going to have nightmares of that ASDIC: PING! PING! PING! PING!

I need to rethink the whole way I do things in this sim.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

and if there is anyone else I've missed that contributed to this (I see a lot of names running around in this thread) Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!