[REL] Real Fleet Boat

[Beery]

Originally Posted by jmjohnson36

070503: Added 13 more Japanese heavy cruisers, 13 more light cruisers, 8 more escort carriers and 5 more fleet carriers to the roster folder and corrected dates for all Japanese BBs, CAs, CLs, CVEs and CVs. This adds more variation in terms of the victims listed in your logbook, reducing the chances of sinking the same ship twice. Mod by Beery (Data\Roster\Japan\Sea\CAFurutaka.cfg, CAMaya.cfg, CAMogami.cfg, CATakao.cfg, CLAgamo.cfg, CLKuma.cfg, CLNaka.cfg, CVEAkitsu.cfg, CVETaiyo.cfg, CVHiryu.cfg, CVChitose.cfg, CVShokaku.cfg, CVTaiho.cfg).

THAT was posted my me already whats going on...??? Looks like copying...but I dont care just looks funny with everyone doing the same thing all over the place...

I simply went to Wikipedia, got the dates of service for Japanese ships, checked them against other external sources when the info was vague, and plugged them into RFB. I certainly didn't use any other member's work - if I had I would have given them credit in the readme file. Although I'm sure I make mistakes of omission from time to time, anyone who knows me can attest to the fact that I'm VERY careful to give full credit when I use anyone's mods, info or tools. I would never knowingly use anyone else's work without giving them proper credit - that's just not my way of doing things. I do plenty of my own work on the game so I'm not the sort of guy who needs to be looking to take credit for anyone else's work, as many of the folks whose work I've used will no doubt confirm. I can only assemble the RUb and RFB mods with the goodwill of the community, so if I claimed ownership of other people's mods I'd be cutting my own throat.

As I wrote before on this issue, I participated (a couple of weeks ago) in a discussion about the Yamato popping up numerous times in people's list of tonnage and I figured I'd do something about it. I didn't even think anyone else would have bothered looking at it so I didn't look for older posts on the issue.

[jmjohnson36]

OH I was not saying you copied me, that was not my intent...what I was trying to say, is that there are so many mods flying out there that people are bound to come to the same idea and create the same thing....I made several carriers the first the Akagi...the first japanese ship mod about 2 months ago...thats been posted...and some else came to the same idea...and was going to do it till they saw mine and emailed me...
Again, Beery if it came across I was accusing you I certainly apologize.

Originally Posted by Beery

I simply went to Wikipedia, got the dates of service for Japanese ships, checked them against other external sources when the info was vague, and plugged them into RFB. I certainly didn't use any other member's work - if I had I would have given them credit in the readme file. Although I'm sure I make mistakes of omission from time to time, anyone who knows me can attest to the fact that I'm VERY careful to give full credit when I use anyone's mods, info or tools. I would never knowingly use anyone else's work without giving them proper credit - that's just not my way of doing things. I do plenty of my own work on the game so I'm not the sort of guy who needs to be looking to take credit for anyone else's work, as many of the folks whose work I've used will no doubt confirm. I can only assemble the RUb and RFB mods with the goodwill of the community, so if I claimed ownership of other people's mods I'd be cutting my own throat.

As I wrote before on this issue, I participated (a couple of weeks ago) in a discussion about the Yamato popping up numerous times in people's list of tonnage and I figured I'd do something about it. I didn't even think anyone else would have bothered looking at it so I didn't look for older posts on the issue.

[Beery]

Originally Posted by jmjohnson36

OH I was not saying you copied me, that was not my intent...what I was trying to say, is that there are so many mods flying out there that people are bound to come to the same idea and create the same thing....I made several carriers the first the Akagi...the first japanese ship mod about 2 months ago...thats been posted...and some else came to the same idea...and was going to do it till they saw mine and emailed me...

I think there may be a misunderstanding going on here. As I understand it (and I'm guessing here) your Akagi is a fully functional ship with its own folder in Data\Sea and with config files, textures, perhaps even a 3D model, plus its own ID book page, etc. My mod doesn't include ship models like your Akagi. RFB only adds ship names (names only, no models, skins or ID book pages). Where a ship class doesn't exist I'm simply bunging in names under an existing class of ship that looks most like it. I'm trying to keep RFB as bare-bones as possible so unlike RUb I'm not going to include any ship models, graphics files or sound files if I can possibly avoid it. Those things can always be added on top of RFB, but RFB itself is only aimed at creating realistic career results by modifying data files. I found that when I was making RUb I got bogged down in creating graphics files like the improved Bismarck graphics, then came all the extra ship models and hi-def skins, which were great, but since the average player (myself included) can't tell the difference between a battleship and a cruiser there was a lot of work that I was including for very minor payoff - for example I never once saw the Bismarck in a career, so all the Photoshop work I did on her was pretty much a waste. So I decided that for SH4 I'd concentrate on fixing the historical-accuracy and mechanical-realism stuff that matters to me and leave all the bells and whistles to others.

It's not that I don't care about the other stuff - on the contrary I love it - it's just that it's too easy for me to get drawn into a 16-hour day, six-month long project only to see it be co-opted, then marginalized and even denounced by folks who can most charitably be described as having a predatory attitude to modding. I'm just not going to devote the time only to have that happen again. Besides, now I have a four year-old daughter to take care of and my four year-old requires a lot more attention than she did when she was a two-year-old (when I was assembling RUb). Plus there have been some personal issues in the past weeks that have been taking a toll (as I mentioned earlier in the thread). So, instead of doing a huge intensive mod project I've decided to put out a simple mod in a few weeks of part-time work that does only what I need it to do to appeal to the realism junkies (folks like me) out there. This time, once the devs stop patching the game RFB will be done with - in fact it's pretty much done now - just a few more tweaks to go.

The other thing I found with RUb was that I couldn't stop tweaking long enough to play the actual game. This time I plan to stay focused, get the mod finished and then leave it and play. Besides, I think players will like to have a solid supermod out there that they can rely on NOT to be undergoing constant change for the sake of it.

Finally, one of my goals is to retain the spirit and scope of the original game. When I assemble a supermod I'm not interested in creating a monster mod that changes the game beyond all recognition. Apart from the fact that I don't have time for that, I don't see the point. SH4 has enough in it to keep players happy - I don't think it needs to become the submarine simulation equivalent of WWII Online in order to give players a fun experience. I want my mod to be an ultra-realistic simulation experience, but I also want it to look like SH4.

[Anvart]

Originally Posted by Beery

...

I haven't seen these. I'll look into them. Probably not on the US torpedo bomber because of the limited impact it has on the game (I'm not including any mod whose effect is so rare as to be virtually invisible).

He, he ...
First you look, read and understand and after all it speak ...

[Beery]

Originally Posted by Anvart

He, he ...
First you look, read and understand and after all it speak ...

I'm not disrespecting your mod. Someone asked me if I was going to include it and I said 'probably not' and gave my reason. Heck, I made a bunch of invisible mods for SH3: the fact is, virtually no one who plays SH3 is ever going to see the Bismarck during a career, yet I spent two weeks creating mods for the Bismarck and adding the Tirpitz and other virtually invisible ships to the game. I also spent time making a Supermarine Seafire skin from scratch - another invisible mod. It's a simple fact - some mods aren't going to be seen regularly in the game (I've yet to see any US aircraft at all in the game, let alone a US torpedo bomber) and my point was that RFB is not the place for those types of mods because RFB is focusing on stuff that we see all the time. People can always add the more detailed stuff over the top of RFB if they want.

[bruschi sauro]

This night I started a new career with this mod istalled, I'm very happy..I like it.
WELL DONE JOB COMMANDER

[t0maz]

Personaly I use Fix_USTorpBomber, JP Ships dimension fix etc. with RFB.
I think it is not a problem to add those mods separetely over RFB until they dont have conflicting files.

The real pain is when we must merge files. But for now I must merge only mods that rise comfort of playing and have nothing to do with realism ie: SlideOut Recognition Manual, Improved Status Indicators or career fix to not be forced for retire before war end (on end date of your first sub - this is not so unrealistic but it seems to be a good workaround for game bug).

I understand of corse that not everyone using the same selection of mods so it is Beery decision what is needed by most RFB players and what to add to his great supermod.

All mods that rise realism, fix or workarounds bugs are my favorites and many thanks for all modders that are making those great work

[t0maz]

I just saw release of Patrol Mod - and shad43 found that S-class was faster than in stock game.
14.5-15 kts surfaced
11kts submerged

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...lass_submarine
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...d=1#post528620

Great news for me, yesterday some merchant runned my S-18 away at fillipines
I must pimp my sub in cfg files - heehe

[Beery]

I've verified this at Wikipedia and at uboat.net. I'll make the change in RFB and credit Shad43 for the mod.

[Anvart]

Originally Posted by Beery

I'm not disrespecting your mod. Someone asked me if I was going to include it and I said 'probably not' and gave my reason. Heck, I made a bunch of invisible mods for SH3: the fact is, virtually no one who plays SH3 is ever going to see the Bismarck during a career, yet I spent two weeks creating mods for the Bismarck and adding the Tirpitz and other virtually invisible ships to the game. I also spent time making a Supermarine Seafire skin from scratch - another invisible mod. It's a simple fact - some mods aren't going to be seen regularly in the game (I've yet to see any US aircraft at all in the game, let alone a US torpedo bomber) and my point was that RFB is not the place for those types of mods because RFB is focusing on stuff that we see all the time. People can always add the more detailed stuff over the top of RFB if they want.

May be ...
But i wished to tell, that torpedo bombers in SH4 are very effective weapon (not virtual) ... :rotfl:

[Camaero]

Beery you have already made SHIV 100% better than stock. Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!

[Happy Times]

Nice to see Beery and others working on this game, may have to try it after all..
Have these torpedo problems been implemented allready?

http://www.historynet.com/magazines/...2/3037866.html

[tedhealy]

I'm loving the latest version with reduced contacts.

I just started a dec 7 1941 career out of Cavite with the Pickerel. The other major game changing mod I added is the [wip] realistic torpedo mod.

I was sent to the Celebes. After 5 weeks of cruising around the area, I had a grand total of 3 contacts fed to me by radio. I was able to get to and find the first one, 2 freighters unescorted. I trail them until nightfall. I radio HQ my sighting report and they send back to me SINK THEM!

I get into position using the position keeper to refine my speed estimation on the targets. Doing a surfaced night attack under a moon less cloudy night, I close to 1500 yards and fire 4 bow tubes at the lead ship, 2 hits! She slows to 2 knots and I finish her off with 2 stern shots. One hits and I have no idea what happened to the other torp. As I catch up to the other ship, the wind picks up and the ocean is heaving. I reload and launch 4 torpedoes at the next ship but all 4 blow early. With dawn approaching, I let this one go. Who knows how long the storm will last and I don't want to be around if this guy calls in backup.

The next contact report comes in, a taskforce that I could never reach, oh well.

Finally as I'm nearing bingo fuel I get another contact report. I investigate and just as I'm about to give up the search, a lookout spots a ship. 4 bow shots and no hits. Those torpedoes must have been duds or veered off. My solution was decent and I fired a spread from about 1600 yards, one should have hit.

I can't imagine what it was like in real life to put your butt on the line and have malfunctioning torpedoes. I don't have the fuel to make another end around run on this guy and make it back to my new base Surabaya. I surface and give her some fire from the deck gun at 3000+ yards. I get a fire started but can't sink her after about 20 minutes of firing.
I head back to Surabaya with 1 ship sunk for 8000 tons For the first time playing sh4 I feel like I earned it rather than having targets presented to me over and over again on a silver platter. Great work on RFB Beery!

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by tedhealy

I'm loving the latest version with reduced contacts.

I just started a dec 7 1941 career out of Cavite with the Pickerel. The other major game changing mod I added is the [wip] realistic torpedo mod.

I was sent to the Celebes. After 5 weeks of cruising around the area, I had a grand total of 3 contacts fed to me by radio. I was able to get to and find the first one, 2 freighters unescorted. I trail them until nightfall. I radio HQ my sighting report and they send back to me SINK THEM!

I get into position using the position keeper to refine my speed estimation on the targets. Doing a surfaced night attack under a moon less cloudy night, I close to 1500 yards and fire 4 bow tubes at the lead ship, 2 hits! She slows to 2 knots and I finish her off with 2 stern shots. One hits and I have no idea what happened to the other torp. As I catch up to the other ship, the wind picks up and the ocean is heaving. I reload and launch 4 torpedoes at the next ship but all 4 blow early. With dawn approaching, I let this one go. Who knows how long the storm will last and I don't want to be around if this guy calls in backup.

The next contact report comes in, a taskforce that I could never reach, oh well.

Finally as I'm nearing bingo fuel I get another contact report. I investigate and just as I'm about to give up the search, a lookout spots a ship. 4 bow shots and no hits. Those torpedoes must have been duds or veered off. My solution was decent and I fired a spread from about 1600 yards, one should have hit.

I can't imagine what it was like in real life to put your butt on the line and have malfunctioning torpedoes. I don't have the fuel to make another end around run on this guy and make it back to my new base Surabaya. I surface and give her some fire from the deck gun at 3000+ yards. I get a fire started but can't sink her after about 20 minutes of firing.
I head back to Surabaya with 1 ship sunk for 8000 tons For the first time playing sh4 I feel like I earned it rather than having targets presented to me over and over again on a silver platter. Great work on RFB Beery!

Sounds good!

[Beery]

Originally Posted by tedhealy

For the first time playing sh4 I feel like I earned it rather than having targets presented to me over and over again on a silver platter. Great work on RFB Beery!

Thanks. I'm so glad people are liking it. I took a few risks with this latest version - throwing people in at the deep end in terms of making the game much more of a challenge. I figured there could have been a lot of criticism on the reduced contacts but so far I've only seen positive reviews. We REALLY have to work at finding contacts now. The good thing is that I left ship populations exactly the same, so ships are out there but players will have to search for choke points and rely much more on hydrophones to find contacts.

Deck gun changes also seem to be well-received, although the standard Silent Hunter uber-deck-gun is often a pet feature for many players so it's hard to wean them off it. In terms of balancing the game's weapons I think RFB is 90% there. I've been testing the new deck gun against real WW2 engagement reports and I'm glad to see that the new deck gun compares well in terms of ammo needed to sink ships.

The anti-aircraft changes are probably what I worked on most in this version. I think I've balanced it so that aircraft aren't flying around as if nothing's wrong when their entire fuselage or wing is on fire. Now if they're on fire it's pretty certain that they're in big trouble. The biggest change is the gunnery effectiveness though, which is drastically reduced. No one will be shooting down 10+ planes per patrol in this mod. It is possible to shoot one or two down but it's very risky.

All-in-all I'm glad people are liking it. It means that the mod is finding the audience for which it's intended, and it means that there are plenty of people who desire a hardcore simulation experience.