[REL] Real Fleet Boat

[Lopo]

Hello there,

I'm a newbie in this game. I just begun a campaign with the famous mod RFB1.28 and I have a two little questions to Berry or someone who wants to answer...
1. Why when I have finished a mission (war patrol in China Sea) nothing has been written in Captain's Log... Yet I have sunk 40K!
2. Is it possible that ComSubPac give me twice the same mission? Next I will return to the same area: China Sea...

Thanks a lot for your help.
Take care

Lopo

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by Beery

With the map contacts reduced in RFB you only get very basic info on the map, and only when the sub is surfaced or has its periscope raised. This simulates your subordinates calling out bearings and ranges to ships and plotting their movements on the map for you. Once you're submerged you only get bearing lines from the hydrophone guy and a very vague idea of the distance to the contact. RFB's map contacts are done in the same way that RUb's were, so it's a lot different from the info you get with the standard game's map contacts. So, in short, the answer is that, yes, you do get a bit more precise info than a real commander would have, but with the limitations of SH4 it's impossible to get it exactly right, and if you switch map contacts off altogether you're getting a LOT less info than real sub commanders had. I believe RFB's system of map contacts is the closest to true realism that it's possible to get with SH4.

Good answer, and I have to agree with you on this one. It's much like my argument for the re-inclusion of the chronometer to get a speed estimate - it simulates you calling out contact bearings and ranges to your plotting officer and having him estimate the speed based on what you tell him. I'll make sure to disable this setting in my next career.

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by Beery

There is, but I'm hard-pressed to figure out what other button to lose in order to do it. The TDT and periscope toolbars are already full for those of us playing at lowere screen resolutions. I'd like to include it but I felt the other toolbar buttons were all just a little more important since the torp doors automatically close as soon as a torpedo is fired, so the only time you need to manually close a door is if you change your mind about firing a torpedo.

Might I suggest you make one set of toolbars for higher resolutions and one for lower settings? I run the game at 1600x1200, so having as many relevant buttons on the screen as possible is a big plus for me. This way you would please both groups of players without having sacrifice buttons for everyone.

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by Bando

I think you're right. There is something with the radar contacts though. When a warship pops up it's identified by the radaroperator as a warship (it's a diamant shape). How do they know that???

Good point. Beery, is it possible to mod the contact shape so that all contacts show up as a square instead of a diamond?

[Beery]

Originally Posted by LukeFF

Good point. Beery, is it possible to mod the contact shape so that all contacts show up as a square instead of a diamond?

It must be. I'll look into it.

[goose814]

On the subject of decoys, here is an excerpt from the book "The Fleet Submarine in the U.S. Navy" by John D. Alden:

"During the war considerable attention was given to so-called evasion devices that would help submarines escape attack. These consisted of various kinds of noisemakers, false targets, and the like which, when ejected from the submarine, were intended to distract or mislead the antisubmarine forces. A small manually operated signal ejector tube was installed, usually in the overhead of the after torpedo room, for releasing these devices. Later an improved hydraulic operated tube was developed. In peacetime these signal ejectors were used to release emergency radio buoys as well as evasion devices."

Gus

[Beery]

Originally Posted by goose814

On the subject of decoys, here is an excerpt from the book "The Fleet Submarine in the U.S. Navy" by John D. Alden:

"During the war considerable attention was given to so-called evasion devices that would help submarines escape attack. These consisted of various kinds of noisemakers, false targets, and the like which, when ejected from the submarine, were intended to distract or mislead the antisubmarine forces. A small manually operated signal ejector tube was installed, usually in the overhead of the after torpedo room, for releasing these devices. Later an improved hydraulic operated tube was developed. In peacetime these signal ejectors were used to release emergency radio buoys as well as evasion devices."

Gus

Yeah, but 'giving attention to them' doesn't necessarily mean that they were used in common practice, nor does it indicate that such devices worked successfully. To me it indicates only that such things were tested. We need the context of this paragraph in order to pin down the meaning of it.

In order to feature them in a realistic mod we need clear evidence that such things were used effectively throughout most of the war in combat on a routine basis. We also need to know the general attitude of commanders towards these devices - after all, if you're trying to evade depth charges the last thing you want to do is give more clues about where you are, and a noisemaker is a two edged sword in this regard - a cunning sub hunter is going to see it for what it is and use it to gain an advantage. Since the AI in the game won't do that, the addition of a feature that lacks realistic drawbacks needs to be approached with care.

[perisher]

Originally Posted by Lopo

1. Why when I have finished a mission (war patrol in China Sea) nothing has been written in Captain's Log... Yet I have sunk 40K!
2. Is it possible that ComSubPac give me twice the same mission? Next I will return to the same area: China Sea...

1. Click on the date of your patrol in the Captain's log.

2. Yes, you can get the same mission twice.

[perisher]

Originally Posted by Bando

There is something with the radar contacts though. When a warship pops up it's identified by the radaroperator as a warship (it's a diamant shape). How do they know that???

An experienced operator could tell a great deal from the return echo on his screen. He wouldn't always be able to differentiate between a warship and a merchant but sometimes he could. There are many references to this in the literature of the period. Additionally if the target is emitting its own radar transmissions it can only be a warship.

[Lopo]

Originally Posted by perisher

1. Click on the date of your patrol in the Captain's log.

2. Yes, you can get the same mission twice.

Perisher,

Thanks a lot for your help... I will do what you recommend.

[tedhealy]

Originally Posted by perisher

An experienced operator could tell a great deal from the return echo on his screen. He wouldn't always be able to differentiate between a warship and a merchant but sometimes he could. There are many references to this in the literature of the period. Additionally if the target is emitting its own radar transmissions it can only be a warship.

Yeah, I've read that too. At the very least something like relative ship size could be figured out from the PPI.

Speaking of the radar, is there any interference or reduced range when it rains heavily?

[Bando]

Originally Posted by tedhealy

Yeah, I've read that too. At the very least something like relative ship size could be figured out from the PPI.

Speaking of the radar, is there any interference or reduced range when it rains heavily?

It may well be possible they could tell, but it should take time in my opinion. Now they just know at the very first moment. I mean when a convoy is detected, it is not too difficult to tell which are the warships, but 2 DD's on patrol in a formation 1 (one sailing right behind the other) sailing at 13 knots could be anything on the radar.

I've been following the thread about range rings on the PPI and being a WIP they are attending to interference on the radar screen. I don't know if they will connect interference with the weather system, it's an interesting idea....

[TopcatWA]

Thanks Beery. Lookin' forward to this mod!!!!!

[Beery]

Originally Posted by Bando

It may well be possible they could tell, but it should take time in my opinion. Now they just know at the very first moment. I mean when a convoy is detected, it is not too difficult to tell which are the warships, but 2 DD's on patrol in a formation 1 (one sailing right behind the other) sailing at 13 knots could be anything on the radar.....

But the hydrophone officer will be able to tell precisely what they are if they're close enough for him to be able to hear the propellers.

[Bando]

Beery,

I know you're right. But let me tell you that even nowadays it's a painstaking proces to correlate ew (electronic warfare) and/or acoustic data to a radar contact.
Making a contact from being "pending" to assumed hostile or confirmed hostile may take not much time in enemy waters, making a contact a merchant or warship may take a lot longer then people think.

If, for ex. a contact was plotted on the SW quadrant, there's no telling what's further down that bearing (out of radar range) but could clearly being picked up by hydrophones. The seawater is capable of transporting sound in very many ways. It happens a lot that the closer ship cannot be heard, the further away one can be heard.

What I'm trying to say is that reporting a radar contact as being a warship right away is something every navy is still looking for today.