[REL] Real Fleet Boat

[Rafter11]

Hey Beery, I love your RFB 2.7. Thanks a lot for your fine work.

In particular I find your Nomograph on the map page to be just he ticket for nailing the target speed. I don't need a chronograph.

If you plan to do an RFB mod for 1.3, I hope you will include the nomograph.

Thanks Again

[tedhealy]

Originally Posted by Bando

Beery,

The gyro fault in the torpedoes when firing at docked ships will be stock, I believe that. It happens not only at docked ships in my game, but a sailing one, saved just before firing, after a reload, generates the same gyro error in some cases.

But what about the 36 torpedoes that all went "through" the target. It may be possible they were all faulty torps, but what are the odds of that?

Mabe refitting generates the fault, I don't know, but as is, it sucks.
I'm playing RFB with the stock torpedous sim file and it feels like cheating myself, but each and every torp would otherwise go through the target.

I don't know how to solve this. Last saterday I've reinstalled the whole game, I sure hope I don't have to do that again.

Don't get me wrong about moaning and bitching, Beery, I love this mod.

Regards

Bando

After 5 patrols from Pearl in USS Gato, I have not seen a torpedo failure rate anything like that. Seems like about 50% failure for me.

Every patrol I have come back with a ship or two sunk. I think I've ID'd maybe 5 or 10 torps that veered off (probably with another 5 or 10 that I didn't notice veering off). The majority of my bad fish explode early. The bad fish have been frustrating (as they very well should be), but nothing like the 100% failure rate you are getting. Perhaps it truly is just a spot of supreme bad luck. Or perhaps you should suspect sabotage:hmm: Everyone is a suspect

[Graf]

Originally Posted by tedhealy

After 5 patrols from Pearl in USS Gato, I have not seen a torpedo failure rate anything like that. Seems like about 50% failure for me.

Every patrol I have come back with a ship or two sunk. I think I've ID'd maybe 5 or 10 torps that veered off (probably with another 5 or 10 that I didn't notice veering off). The majority of my bad fish explode early. The bad fish have been frustrating (as they very well should be), but nothing like the 100% failure rate you are getting. Perhaps it truly is just a spot of supreme bad luck. Or perhaps you should suspect sabotage:hmm: Everyone is a suspect

Read "Silent Victory" by Clay Blair Jr. You'd be amazed how poor the Mk14 actually performed.

I believe it was Blair that said,"had it not been for the poor performance of the Mk14, the invasion of the Dutch East Indies might not have succeeded."

American submarines encountered nearly every troop convoy/task force sent for the invasion, attacked a number of Japanese battleships and carriers, and came away with nothing. Talk about frustration!

Just imagine the high number of kills acheived after the problems were solved with the Mk14 and apply that to 1942. War would have been much, much different.

[Sfinx]

Here is also some info about the torpedoes.
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/1592/ustorp2.htm

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by Beery

It cannot possibly be. If it was the Hardcore Torpedoes Mod causing this how could I possibly have experienced it (as I undoubtedly did - I even made a post about it at the time) before I loaded the Hardcore Torpedoes Mod onto my computer? The mod would have to download itself onto my computer, install itself before I saw the bug and then uninstall itself before I compared the files prior to installing the mod. That is physically impossible.

The most CCIP's mod could possibly do would be to make the bug worse, but this bug undoubtedly happens with the stock game because I've seen it happen. I shot a full load of torpedoes at a freighter and every single one hooked to the left by 18 degrees. This was with unmodded torpedoes. I know for sure because I was considering the torpedo mod at the time and I found people discussing this bug and blaming it on the mod, so I made a post in the mod thread saying "I have this bug and I'm only *thinking* of installing the mod".

Anyway, this bug only seems to happen when firing at docked ships, so it works for me as a way to promote realistic play. In real life it would have been virtually impossible to get into a harbour to fire torpedoes at docked ships. The alternative is building lots of minefields for RFB and I definitely don't want to do that because they're a pain to build and in SH3 they often caused CTDs.

Beery, I understand but believe me, when I returned to the stockTorpedoes_US.sim ALL torpedoes ran hot, straight and normal. Even at stationary targets in harbors. And I replaced it without starting a new career or returning to port so that single file was all that has changed.

I am not saying you are wrong. I am just reporting my findings. Maybe replacing the file "resets" the malfunction chance or something. Maybe the altered Torpedoes_US.sim file is making the torps act like ships and they are now goverened by the collision avoidance AI.

Who knows. Until we find the "Rosetta Stone" of the torpedo environment we can only guess at what effects modding the .sim file will have.

:hmm: :hmm: :hmm:

Originally Posted by Bando

Just have done what Quagmire said; hit after hit. Quagmire's solution is, as far as I can see, correct. In the file Torpedoes_US.sim is something not as it should be. Maybe CCIP can advise. Should I go to his thread??

Thanks for the test Bando. It helps me believe that I was not seeing things since you got the same results.

I hope that we can make this mod work since it is unrealistic to have all torps run perfectly as in stock. However all torps hooking 20 deg to port is unrealistic as well.

And Beery, thanks again for the RFB mod. I am not slamming RFB in any way. I am just trying to help.

[theluckyone17]

I have a question... in the torpedo settings, are there separate settings for the different types of torpedo failures? Or just one setting? I'm away from my desktop right now, so I can't look it up myself.

The reason I ask? If it's one setting, I wonder if it's using it to decide when to throw a random failure for a time... sometimes it's running deep, sometimes it's a premature detonation, sometimes it's a gyro failure. When we ramp up the failure rate, we're seeing many failures of random types... only it doesn't randomize the types of failure often enough. So we're trying to model consistent issues with running depth or duds, and SH4 suddenly throws a string of fish that won't track correctly.

[Beery]

Originally Posted by Quagmire

And Beery, thanks again for the RFB mod. I am not slamming RFB in any way. I am just trying to help.

I know. It's just a bit frustrating because I know for certain that the bug is a vanilla bug. It may be made worse with the torp mod, but I just don't see how it could be a torp mod bug given my experience of it.

[ZaPPPa]

The chance of a torpedoe veering off is determined by a 'roll of the dice', but I believe the random number generator (or die) is not functioning correctly. Therefore in some instances all torpedoes fired will use the same die roll. Either all will be straight as an arrow, all will run deep or all will veer off. The number generator is supposed to go to the next number in the seed, but somehow it does not.

This same number could cause the same missions to repeat over and over again, which is another bug that is popping up for a lot of people.

[Jaber]

I have a quick question regarding the deck gun damage (I did try searching for the answer first, but with 33 pages... ). I know it has been reduced to meet realism, but is it a bit under powered now? Yesterday I ran across a lone small freighter and decided why waste a good torp; but after 74HE and 27AP (from the rear 4 50) the thing was still trolling along at 7+ knots with on minor secondary explosions and no listing after 8hrs (normal shots to the control and engine sections). I know nothing of historic accuracies...

And THANKS Berry for RFB!!! I could not imagine playing SH4 without it.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Sfinx

Here is also some info about the torpedoes.
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/1592/ustorp2.htm

Interesting read.

According to the article, as of around Dec. 1943, "Magnetic influence exploders were not used by US Navy submarines through the balance of WW II".

Should this and can this be modded into the game? Is it possible to force the exploder dial to the CONTACT position to accomplish this?

[theluckyone17]

How often does this "die get rolled"? As each fish leaves the tube? Once, at the start of the patrol? Once, at the start of each loaded game? 'Course, this is probably hard to concretely verify without actually looking at the source code, but we should be able to get an idea based off how often it happens, and our actions in between (though it's going to be a pain in the arse).

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Is it possible to force the exploder dial to the CONTACT position to accomplish this?

Can we verify that the contact setting actually sets it to contact? I seem to remember a few posts saying that the exploder dial is backwards...

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by Beery

I know. It's just a bit frustrating because I know for certain that the bug is a vanilla bug. It may be made worse with the torp mod, but I just don't see how it could be a torp mod bug given my experience of it.

I hear ya loud and clear. Its just that my head hurts now because things aren't adding up. Why would the torps all run perfectly when going back to the stock Torpedoes_US.sim file in the same patrol and the same career. Heck, the game should be crashing to desktop from changing such files without returning to port.

The answer to all our SHIV problems is going to be "42". LOL! :rotfl:

[Bando]

I started a new career, started reusing the rfb file for the us torps and my "hitrate" is about 30%. Back to normal I guess.

I really have no idea why 36 torps in a row went deep. Tried all day to figure it out, almost threw my monitor out the window, my wife loves my bold head, the children won't come within 20 yards of me and the dog is barking to me all day.

Yeah, back to normal

Originally Posted by Jaber

I have a quick question regarding the deck gun damage (I did try searching for the answer first, but with 33 pages... ). I know it has been reduced to meet realism, but is it a bit under powered now? Yesterday I ran across a lone small freighter and decided why waste a good torp; but after 74HE and 27AP (from the rear 4 50) the thing was still trolling along at 7+ knots with on minor secondary explosions and no listing after 8hrs (normal shots to the control and engine sections). I know nothing of historic accuracies...

And THANKS Berry for RFB!!! I could not imagine playing SH4 without it.

Yes, this mod does (realistically) make your guns much less powerful so it is impossible to sink a 5.000+ ton ship even with 100+ rounds.

I have increased RFB deck gun effect values because they were too weak for my taste.

[perisher]

I find, after 6 patrols using 1.27 in 1942, I either get 80+% torpedo accuracy or bugger all torpedo accuracy in each patrol. If I don't get a hit in the first 4 or 5 shots I don't get a hit in the entire patrol. I get 3 bad patrols to 1 good patrol. Overall the stats work out okay but I don't think they should cluster like that, each patrol should average out at about 25%-30% accurate.